Is it wrong to have sex for fun, knowing it might possibly lead to an abortion?

Discussion in 'Religion' started by SetiAlpha6, Feb 12, 2019.

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  1. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Of course not. I value the pleasurable experience more than I value the (small) risk to my life. And since that risk can be minimized with work, I am comfortable with it.

    You make the same decisions every day. Do you ever drive anywhere? If so, you value the easy transportation provided by the car more than the risks that transportation poses.
     
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  3. SetiAlpha6 Come Let Us Reason Together Valued Senior Member

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    OK, Great!

    Would you also risk someone else’s life for your own personal pleasure? Or would you draw the line there?
     
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  5. SetiAlpha6 Come Let Us Reason Together Valued Senior Member

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    Certainly, you are better than that. Right?
     
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  7. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Again, depends on the risk level.

    Would I take a very small risk with someone else's life? (i.e. doing a skydiving demo) Yes.
    Would I take the same risk with someone else's life that I would take with my own? No. My personal tolerance for risk is far higher than the tolerance I have for putting someone else at risk.
     
  8. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    SetiAlpha6:

    In practice, this happens all the time. Even if contraception is being used, there's usually no guarantee that it will be 100% effective. For example, condoms have a 1-2% failure rate.

    Are you advocating that people ought only to have sex for the purposes of procreation?

    Child? I thought you were talking about abortion early in pregnancy. There's no child then, just a bunch of cells or a foetus.

    AIDS isn't a virus. Perhaps you're referring to HIV. But then, these days, HIV isn't deadly either, if you have access to appropriate treatments to control the virus.

    Again, in practice, this probably happens more often than you'd think. Refer to comments on condoms, above, for example.

    ---
    But, as has already been pointed out, there are some problematic assumptions in your scenarios. One is that you're assuming that the only reason for the sex is to "have fun". Another problem is that it seems like there's an assumption that you're somehow keeping the possibility of pregnancy or transmission of HIV a secret from your sexual partner. That is, the assumption appears to be that you're going into the sex with deliberate intent to deceive your partner.

    The first scenario is also loaded in its assumption that you would know in advance that the woman involved would "likely" have an abortion. The assumption appears to be that women view abortion in a similar way to contraception - that they take it lightly and that the decision whether to abort is one made without much consideration.

    Another problem is the assumption of a male-dominant position in this sexual interaction. Where is the woman's agency and choice in this hypothesized sexual activity?
     
  9. cluelusshusbund + Public Dilemma + Valued Senior Member

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    Well thanks... but i alredy see myself as morally perfect.!!!
     
  10. SetiAlpha6 Come Let Us Reason Together Valued Senior Member

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    Thanks for your comments James!

    As for me, I am married and I am faithful to my wife. So my wife and I do not really have to worry about these things.

    As I mentioned to you recently, my brother Kevin, died from HIV/AIDS. I have to go to a graveyard to talk to him and he never talks back to me. I really miss him!

    One website states that over 30 million people are currently infected with HIV/AIDS and rising.

    I have multiple relatives that have had children outside of marriage. Because of failed contraception methods.

    Science (embryology) teaches that a new human life begins at conception. So an abortion clearly kills a new male or female human life. This is self evident. I call it a child, you may call he or she anything you want to. It is obviously a separate human life from the mother.

    How is it possible for people to ever think it is OK to kill there own child? I feel like it would take a depraved, self deceived mind to even conceive of such a thing.
     
  11. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    Wait. What?

    When did we start talking about marriage versus not marriage? I thought we were talking about diseases?

    Life is pretty ubiquitous. And much of it is a lot more self-sustaining than a fetus. Every cell in your body is alive, and more are being created all the time. So every time you wash your hands you're killing life.

    No. A fetus is not a person.
    And it is not sexually dimorphic until well into its development.

    Not obvious at all.

    That must be very hard for you.

    Worry not though. Your feelings do not impact others, as long as you keep them to yourself.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2019
  12. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    So what? It doesn't have a right to live. That's just morality.
     
  13. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    SetiAlpha6:

    First of all, I am sorry to hear about the death of your brother. If you mentioned it to me recently, I must have missed it, so sorry about that.

    I thought this was a general question, not something to do with marriage. Also, some people do have extramarital sex. Also, abortion within marriage is something that happens, too.

    It's close to 37 million. In roughly half of those, the virus is inactive, due to suppression using modern medicines. The rate of new HIV infections is dropping, however. In the past 7 years, it has decreased 18%. Obviously, there is still work to be done.

    You probably don't know about the ones who had abortions.

    Conception is certainly the time that already-living cells come together to form a new, genetically complete, human being.

    Call it what you like, but a foetus, or a single fertilised zygote, is very different from a human child after birth. The child has a complex brain and nervous system, limbs, sensory organs, etc. The zygote does not.

    No. It is completely dependent on its mother until birth. Indeed, it is physically joined to the mother via the placenta.

    Beats me. Some people are disturbed. What has child killing got to do with abortion?
     
  14. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Lots of things are "just morality".

    "Just morality" is what we use to decide between right and wrong.
     
  15. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    and that other human being is a serial killer or terrorist ?
     
  16. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    ok so the girl you see has some genetic problem and if she has a child it will be terribly disabled and suffer a horrible painfull life and die before it gets to about 15 years old.

    do you tell her she is disgusting and should never have sex because she is a terrible person and should be shamed of herself ?

    ({[note to mods, this person sounds like a troll]})
     
  17. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    Another of these larger-than-life American characters, then.

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  18. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    No it doesn't

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  19. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    Darwinian progenitor sanctification of the nature of reproduction would likely yield a higher return value.
    it stands to reason.
    contrasting with the wild killer inside the human animal that declares it must eat animal flesh.

    real pro-lifers would be vegans.
    anyone else is a moral & religious fraud
     
  20. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    I should have been more specific. No one has a right to life if that life depends on using another person's body without consent. A unique human life probably does start at conception, but that's not the relevant part.
     
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  21. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    No, because human morality is primarily concerned with humans.
     
  22. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    It kind of does, if human life means a life form with unique human DNA.
     
  23. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    Well it sort does not

    I agree the two common(?) perceptions (arguments) are conception and birth

    Reality. a dead ovum does not mix with a dead sperm to BINGO produce life. Both have potential only if alive at the time of mixing

    Life in essence has been a continuous, repeat continuous, process since it started

    Since the concept is complex it is easier to view life as a stop (mum and dad) start again (kids)

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