Should men have a say in abortion ?

Discussion in 'Ethics, Morality, & Justice' started by RainbowSingularity, May 25, 2019.

  1. Musika Last in Space Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,701
    I understand that it's popular to imagine what others are saying rather than ask for a clarification, but I prefer not to.

    Then, the question I would bring to those people who made those comments, would be "Why bring it up in the discussion?"
    If not to correlate dependence with expendibility, or birthing a child as some sort of punishment, why bring it to the discussion?

    If they want to say it wasn't to highlight some sort of abhorrence/forfeiture of everything or punishment, what was the ".... therefore" they were intent on tagging to the material they were introducing to the discussion?
     
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  3. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    7,447
    ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️
    ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️
    and computers, health care, hospitals, cars and cell phones and ovens and microwaves and penicillin... the list continues.
    Vaccines... infant mortality. labour laws...

    do they want their thalidomide and polio back ?

    back in the good ol days ...
    such a bunch of morally bankrupt hypocrites playing god with womens bodys.
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2019
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  5. parmalee peripatetic artisan Valued Senior Member

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    3,266
    Ermmm, because the topic of discussion is abortion?

    You are a runner. You like to run. However, you've twisted your ankle. Being compelled to run under those circumstances might be construed as a punishment. Does that make running under any and all circumstances a punishment?

    This is ridiculous.
     
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  7. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    7,447
    look how big my penis is
    i was going to do what you wanted but now you have your own opinion im not going to do it out of spite to show i control me and i control you at the same time because im a control freak
    vague collective group shaming attempt
    oh no it isnt...
    im the nicest person and YOU are the unreasonable one so im such a nice guy its amazing im so nice...
     
  8. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,447
    it's not ridiculous when you are playing god with other peoples bodys and lives at no personal risk(coward?)
    sheesh ! try and keep up

    the heart of misogyny is the psychopathic narcissist
    it must play god with others to avoid developing empathy

    because empathy is the evil emotions that undermine control of everyone else.

    the broken record of the consciousness goes around and around

    you are arguing with people who only agree that slavery is wrong because their has been a law made about it.
     
  9. Musika Last in Space Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,701
    So in regards to abortion/motherhood, what is the parrallel?
    What is it precisely that one may "like to do"? And what would be the equivalent of an extraneous disruptive crippling event, such as twisting one's ankle?
     
  10. Jeeves Valued Senior Member

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    5,089
    Just try it two, three times. You'll figure it out.
     
  11. parmalee peripatetic artisan Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,266
    Oh, right--I forgot your m.o.

    Here, this will give you more to work with:

    You're a coprophage. You like to eat feces. However, you're full. Being compelled to eat feces under those circumstances might be construed as a punishment. Does that make eating feces under any and all circumstances a punishment?
     
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  12. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,447
    "the sport of abortion" ?... "why men need to stay in control" ...
     
  13. wegs Matter and Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    9,253
    To the pro-life men - why should you (and men in general) have a say in abortion? That's the question, really. Nothing more or less.

    You have stated why you feel abortion is wrong in this thread, (and other thread derailing comments beyond that), but not why you should have a voice in the matter?
     
    RainbowSingularity likes this.
  14. billvon Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    21,634
    Nope. It has been proven that education reduces the odds of someone "chain smoking" - and it has been proven that education is an important part of strategies that reduce people "consuming copious amounts of alcohol."

    https://www.tobaccofreekids.org/assets/factsheets/0051.pdf

    https://www.researchgate.net/public..._Promotion_in_Preventing_Alcohol_Related_Harm

    Meanwhile, to get back to the topic, it is always up to the woman whether she smokes or drinks (or gets an abortion.)
     
  15. Musika Last in Space Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,701
    Reducing the odds does not equal "anyone".
    The fact that even health professionals can succumb to the habit indicates it's not something that is curbed solely from access to knowledge.

    Yet even you can work with the issue of reducing the odds, under certain conditions, without having recourse to outright prohibition on the platform of legislation.
     
  16. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,447
    soo... you have a 15 year old pregnant boy
    his parents are split on if he should have an abortion
    one says yes
    the other says no
    which one should the gynopeniologist listen to ? proctopenialpathologist ?
    the mother or the father ?

    should the boy have a casting deciding vote in what happens to be stuck up his ... & done to him inside...

    (you cant say that kind of thing because it upsets my gender and sexual orientation xenophobic brainwashing)
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2019
  17. Musika Last in Space Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,701
    http://www.sciforums.com/threads/should-men-have-a-say-in-abortion.161939/page-3#post-3578953

    It was addressed way back when. In short, if you want to play direct involvement as the first and last word in advocacy, society starts to look strange, and it's not too difficult to fast track any sort of agenda.
     
  18. Musika Last in Space Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,701
    So once again, the extraneous condition, regarding motherhood/abortion you are trying to highlight is?
     
  19. parmalee peripatetic artisan Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,266
    You asked, (in pregnancy), "what would be the equivalent of an extraneous disruptive crippling event, such as twisting one's ankle?" A lot of possibilities there, but they all come down to "becoming pregnant when one does not wish to be."

    With my second example, I was simply trying to come up with a more trivial, or repugnant, matter for which you could employ your dishonest tactics by suggesting I equate pregnancy with running or coprophagia.

    Now, explain how stating that compelling a person to carry a pregnancy to term, when she has no desire to, is akin to punishment is equivalent to stating that "motherhood is a punishment."
     
  20. wegs Matter and Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    9,253
    Okay. So, if a man should have a say in the matter, what is his responsibility level? If you feel that women shouldn't be permitted to have abortions (or maybe there are restrictions, etc) how much accountability should men have, if they willingly engaged in unprotected sex, and said women end up pregnant?

    As I read through this thread, it seems that the pro-life stance is about placing the entire responsibility and consequence of having unprotected sex, upon women. It takes two to tango as they say, and men need to be just as responsible for the outcomes of unprotected sex.
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2019
  21. Musika Last in Space Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,701
    And that is an alternative to construing motherhood as punishment?

    Sometimes in discussions like these, it is apparent that certain parties hold it as more important to sustain their hatred of the opposition than work in any way to solve or de-escalate the issue at hand.

    Its not obvious?
    If she is not the mother of the child, who is?
    If, in this case, the act of being a mother (motherhood) is not being labelled as some sort of punishment, what do you propose it to be?
     
  22. Bells Staff Member

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    24,270
    The actual question was essentially asking if you believe women should have the right to their fundamental human rights and bodily autonomy. That you are completely incapable of answering and instead choose to change the subject and then declare it had "quite a bit of packaging" speaks volumes.
     
  23. Bells Staff Member

    Messages:
    24,270
    Something something about forcing women to remain pregnant and give birth against their will and without their consent goes here.

    Reasonable people will understand how and why this would be horrific.

    Why can't you?

    Do you think it is acceptable to force women to remain pregnant and to give birth without their consent and against their will?

    A simple yes or no will suffice.
     

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