UFOs (UAPs): Explanations?

Discussion in 'UFOs, Ghosts and Monsters' started by Magical Realist, Oct 10, 2017.

  1. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    Ooooh, ahhhh! nasty government cover ups! Take that with your other paranoid accusations/excuses such as me having some sweet deal with the mods here...me having a similar sweet deal with the mods at SFN where you are banned....mainstream science being incalcitrant and unable to accept one of your favourite speculative gravity hypotheticals among more then a dozen or thereabouts....your claim 9/11 was a conspiracy, and it becomes very obvious that your reputation is in tatters and worthy of the cesspool.

    Q-reeus, the facts of the matter at this stage of the game is that this incident along with a small percentage of other incidents, is just another vanilla variety UFO....emphasis on the U. do not compound your generally nonsensical conspiracy orientated claims by equating Unidentified with of alien origin.
    Take it easy old friend!

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  3. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    Do you have a reading comprehension problem?

    Q-reeus: "UFO's as other than secret military craft or 'interstellar space aliens' makes best sense,"
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2019
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  5. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    Well certainly not when compared to your fanatical paranoia with regards to anything supernatural or paranormal.
    Let me state it again..... the facts of the matter at this stage of the game is that this incident along with a small percentage of other incidents, is just another vanilla variety UFO....emphasis on the U. do not compound your generally nonsensical conspiracy orientated claims by equating Unidentified with of alien origin.
     
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  7. dumbest man on earth Real Eyes Realize Real Lies Valued Senior Member

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    Or Logical Fallacy?
    https://thebestschools.org/magazine/15-logical-fallacies-know/
    Throw #1's ,add #2 and voilà, Science!
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2019
  8. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    Hiya dmoe!!

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    Long time no see....at least under that handle...

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    Sorry about you being handcuffed over at SFN where you reside as et pet!

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    Again at best this is just another vanilla variety UFO with emphasis on U, at worst and as I have shown in articles, it is a construed/manufactured effort/s by some to add to the usual nonsensical claims by UFO enthusiasts to gain some air of respectibility.
    Look Ma, Its a tic tac!

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  9. dumbest man on earth Real Eyes Realize Real Lies Valued Senior Member

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    Q-reeus does not add any "nonsensical claims", he actually clearly states :
    However, this seems to be adding Logical Fallacies (ad hominem/Strawman).
    https://thebestschools.org/magazine/15-logical-fallacies-know/

    Again...Throw #1's ,add #2 and voilà, Science!
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2019
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  10. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    Despite the noise, and again, the fact remains that this at best is your garden variety UFO with emphasis on the U, and at worst a manufactured scenario to add some respectibility to the arguments put by our UFOs of alien origin friends......
    https://www.outerplaces.com/science/item/17563-photo-pentagon-ufo-story-fake-expert-reveals
    Expert Reveals the Photo at the Center of the Pentagon UFO Story Is Fake
    Has the photo at the center of the controversy surrounding the Pentagon's secret UFO program officially been debunked?

    A lot of people want to believe, especially the UFO organization started by Blink 182's former singer Tom DeLonge, the To The Stars Academy.

    At a presentation this past October, an academy member named Chris Mellon, who served for 20 years in various national security positions in the US government, pointed to a famously cited photo of a supposed UFO and claimed that it was the craft spotted in the 2004 "Nimitz incident," in which pilots witnessed a craft that seemed to "defy the laws of physics."

    Unfortunately, Express.co.uk has revealed that not only is the photo of the infamous "white Tic-Tac UFO" most likely a distorted picture of a mylar party balloon, the photo wasn't even taken in 2004 near the Nimitz incident—it was photographed in 2005, in Manchester, England.

    According to UFO investigator Steve Mera, who investigated the original sighting in England: "Truth of the matter is... it was taken in Eccles, Manchester and I investigated the case. Likelihood... it was a novelty balloon, a number 'one.' Someone manipulated the photo a little by increasing its brightness."
    The photo somehow found its way into an article about the Nimitz incident published in 2015, where it was apparently picked up by members of DeLonge's academy and included in the October presentation, where Mellon commented:

    "Clearly this is not a US experimental aircraft, but whose is it? How did it accomplish these feats? This story may sound like a sci-fi movie, but it is a true story, and far from being the only one of its kind."

    Despite the organization boasting a collection of highly qualified government officials and experts, the fact that the To The Stars Academy didn't put due diligence into researching the photo or its connection to the Nimitz incident makes them less than trustworthy when it comes to separating facts from fiction. This is reinforced by DeLonge's claim in November that a CGI hoax video of a triangular UFO was genuine, despite quickly being revealed as a fake, similar to the "alien interview" that went viral on YouTube in 2016.

    If the Academy is going to live up to its reputation, it had better start getting a better fact-checking team fast.
    ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

    Yep, at best a UFO.
     
  11. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    Just an application of common sense and reading between the lines, along with the other weird beliefs and assertions of certain characters.
    When someone says more then once, "obviously not of this world" it is generally meant as a closeted remark or substitute for "of Alien origin"
    You yourself also hide behind that thin veil. Again we have countless examples of atmospheric anomalies both well known and perhaps not so well known.
    Only one answer satisfies...at best, an as yet unexplained UFO. End of story...both officially, and here.

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    Anyone who doubts that conclusion, I suggest you get a newspaper, turn on your TV sets, and listen and observe if there are any changes in that official logical scientifically sound explanation.
     
  12. wegs Matter and Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    A novelty balloon. lmao!

    I highly doubt that. All of these ''experts'' are just guessing like the rest of us mere mortals.
     
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  13. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    Yeah..all these skeptics' obsessions over a photo when the 3 clear videos are provided. What's the matter? Do you need to distract from something?
     
  14. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    My apologies as I may not be around for a couple of days, as I will be attending my 60th Old Boys reunion, where we have planned a harbour cruise. Just in case anyone misses me!

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  15. dumbest man on earth Real Eyes Realize Real Lies Valued Senior Member

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    For anyone who is really interested in discussing this matter without any Logical Fallacies :
    The linked article :
    https://www.outerplaces.com/science/item/17563-photo-pentagon-ufo-story-fake-expert-reveals
    Expert Reveals the Photo at the Center of the Pentagon UFO Story Is Fake , cites its source as : https://www.express.co.uk/news/weir...truth-UFO-picture-Nimitz-To-The-Stars-Academy
    That article states :
    "Nick Pope, a former investigator of UFOs for the British Ministry of Defence (MoD) said the mistake should not detract from the academy's overall findings.

    He said: "To The Stars Academy sometimes use UFO images that have caught their attention and that they like.

    "These images don't always seem to correspond with the incidents they're recounting. \

    "I think this is a mistake, and I wish they wouldn't do it, but don't let's throw out the baby with the bathwater.

    Tom DeLonge won UFO researcher of the year in 2017 from Open Minds TV.
    "The danger here is that people might come to believe that the wider story is false.

    "It isn't. Tom DeLonge and some of his people might have occasionally put up a stock image they found online - much as a newspaper sometimes illustrates a UFO story with a generic image - but the recent revelations about the Pentagon's UFO project are all true: the project existed and was funded to the tune of $22M; some of the personnel involved with this project came to believe some of the objects were extraterrestrial; there are genuine, declassified military videos of navy jets chasing UFOs; and some of the pilots involved in these chases have gone on the record to confirm this.

    "All of this has been meticulously fact-checked, so it'll be a tragedy if people come to doubt this major news story just because of a mix-up over images." - https://www.express.co.uk/news/weir...truth-UFO-picture-Nimitz-To-The-Stars-Academy

    Again, Posted For anyone who is really interested in discussing this matter.


     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2019
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  16. Gawdzilla Sama Valued Senior Member

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    When did we definitively determine that UFOs were actually tangible objects?
     
  17. dumbest man on earth Real Eyes Realize Real Lies Valued Senior Member

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    Not sure that any Object, be it Identified or Unidentified, Flying or Static/Sitting Still, in a Picture/Video or Live In Person has ever been or ever can/will be definitively determined to be tangible until it is actually touched.

    Please note, Gawdzilla Sama, that I both noticed and note the 'definitively determine'.
     
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  18. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    Far be it for me to spoil your dabbling into the supernatural and/or paranormal, but again, check your local news tomorrow and it will still just be a garden variety of UFOs, that the gullible like to blow out of all proportion and illogically extrapolate to....wait for it! Alien craft!!!!
    http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2017/12/new-york-times-ufo-report.html

    "The internet went slightly more bananas than usual last weekend over the New York Timesstory implying that extraterrestrials are real and the U.S. government has been tracking them for years. Appearing first on the web on Saturday, it came out in print on Sunday as a front-page story entitled “Real U.F.O.s? Pentagon Unit Tried to Know.” As if wary of the waters into which it was about to wade, the piece started out in a sober and measured tone, describing the existence of a heretofore little-known Department of Defense program, but then after the jump to page 27 loosened up and gave free rein to claims that the program had found evidence of strange aircraft that flew in seemingly impossible ways.

    For Ufologists who had dreamed of being taken seriously by the mainstream media, the story was a dream come true. As BigThink.com put it, “The article is shocking, and arguably represents a historical inflection point in our attitudes regarding UFOs.” Twitter user Space Traveller wrote: “How is everyone not losing it over this Pentagon #UFO report and footage?!” Even inveterate bubble-burster Neil deGrasse Tyson accepted that something was out there, reminding CNN viewers that just because an object was unidentified didn’t necessarily mean it came from outer space.

    The tl;dr appeared to be “flying saucers are real.” But a closer reading suggests a murkier proposition.

    The main source in the Times article was a former Pentagon employee named Luis Elizondo, who ran a small program called Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification from 2007 until it was shut down in 2012. What made the story Times-worthy was the fact that Elizondo’s account was vouched for by the man who’d arranged for its funding, former Senate majority leader Harry Reid, as well as by the billionaire donor who won the contract to manage the program, Robert Bigelow. (Fox News justifiably raised an eyebrow at the men’s lucrative interconnection.)

    The fact that the program really existed was the part that the Times touted as its big get, but that wasn’t what set the internet on fire. What got people excited was the implication that the program had collected evidence of encounters with unidentified flying objects. In reporting this part of the story, reporters Helene Cooper, Ralph Blumenthal, and Leslie Kean were much less careful about maintaining a critical eye. “The program produced documents that describe sightings of aircraft that seemed to move at very high velocities with no visible signs of propulsion, or that hovered with no apparent means of lift,” the article asserted, later adding: “The company modified buildings in Las Vegas for the storage of metal alloys and other materials that Mr. Elizondo and program contractors said had been recovered from unidentified aerial phenomena. In addition, researchers also studied people who said that they had experienced physical effects from encounters with the objects and examined them for physiological changes.”

    The straightforward presentation of these assertions implies that the authors believe them to be true. But they beg for elaboration. Were the produced documents credible? In what way were the buildings modified, and why was it necessary to modify them in order to store this material? What does it mean for an object to be associated with a phenomenon? What were the claimed physical effects, and were any physiological changes found?

    Making portentous assertions out of context is a powerful technique for creating a sense of mystery and drama. Leaving a question unanswered implies that it is unanswerable. Selectively omitting key details can make a mundane fact seem uncanny. These techniques are great for exciting an audience, but they’re better suited to Ancient Aliens than the pages of the New York Times because the net effect is to cloud rather than illuminate key issues. In this case: What exactly did Elizondo’s team uncover?


    The main article is decidedly short on specifics. There’s a brief reference to “footage from a Navy F/A-18 Super Hornet showing an aircraft surrounded by some kind of glowing aura traveling at high speed and rotating as it moves.” A more detailed account is provided in an accompanying sidebarentitled “2 Navy Airmen and an Object That ‘Accelerated Like Nothing I’ve Ever Seen.’” In it, former Navy F/A-18 pilot David Fravor relates his experience during a flight from the aircraft carrier Nimitz on November 14, 2004. While en route to a training mission he was vectored toward an unknown radar contact. Arriving on the scene, he witnessed a lozenge-shaped craft that moved over an agitated, churning patch of ocean, then moved so quickly that it appeared to defy physics.

    Embedded in the sidebar is a 76-second-long video that is described as having been taken during the 2004 encounter. It shows a fuzzy dot in the center of an infrared-camera monitor that, when zoomed in on, appears lozenge-shaped. There are no visual clues such as clouds or sea, so it is impossible to gauge distance or relative motion. Near the end, the object ducks away to the left. There is nothing about the video that in itself reads as being beyond the realm of normal physics, though it seems eerie given the article’s content.

    As UFO sightings go, Fravor’s account ranks as fairly credible. It’s detailed, internally consistent, and is provided by an unusually well-credentialed subject. Not only was Fravor a Navy pilot, he was a cast member of the ten-part documentary series Carrier about life on the USS Nimitz that aired on PBS in 2008.

    Neither the story nor the video are new, however. Both have been kicking around the internet for some time. Fravor’s tale first appeared in March, 2015, on the website FighterSweep.com, where writer Paco Chierici presented a detailed story as told to him by “a good buddy of mine and former squadron mate, Dave ‘Sex’ Fravor.” Chierici advises that it’s “one of the most bizarre aviation stories of all time … a story that stretches credibility.”

    In a follow-up story for the Times Insider about how the story came to be, reporter Ralph Blumenthal makes it sound like the Times scored an exclusive by getting Elizondo to open up to them, writing that he and two colleagues “met Mr. Elizondo in a nondescript Washington hotel where he sat with his back to the wall, keeping an eye on the door.” The implication is that Elizondo feared the repercussions of leaking sensitive information for the first time.

    continued...
     
  19. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    continued....
    In fact, when Elizondo spoke to the Times he had left government and was promoting the launch of a new venture called To the Stars … Academy of Arts & Science, a website that is trying to crowdsource donations to study paranormal phenomena. Before the Times told his story, To the Stars’ main shareholder, former Blink-182 guitarist Tom DeLonge, had previously promoted the venture on the Joe Rogan Experience podcast.

    And what, exactly, did Elizondo uncover during his five years heading a semi-secret arm of the Pentagon investigating possible extraterrestrial visitations? A visit to the venture’s website raises doubts. A video with the title “2004 USS NIMITZ FLIR1 VIDEO” is the same video seen on the Times’ website, with the addition of a detailed technical description of the infrared-imaging system that took it, along with the claim that “this footage comes with crucial chain-of-custody (CoC) documentation because it is a product of U.S. military sensors, which confirms it is original, unaltered, and not computer generated or artificially fabricated.” But no such documentation is provided.


    The description links to a separate page entitled “2004 USS NIMITZ PILOT REPORT.” This is a truly curious document that retells Fravor’s story in the form of a military-style briefing, with his name replaced by the word “Source,” allegedly “to protect sources and methods.” Sections of it have been blacked out, as if by a military censor, though the given date of September 7, 2017, was some 13 years after the event and 5 years after the Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification had been shut down. Curiously, the file flubs some well-known aviation technology, such as equating “UAS” with “Unidentified Aerial System.” (It commonly refers to “Unmanned Aircraft System,” or drone.)

    It seems that To the Stars is trying to shroud Fravor’s account in a spooky fog of faux top-secrecy. This is a dicey strategy given Fravor’s prominence in online UFO circles, and gives the impression that Elizondo’s company is repackaging timeworn tales from the internet as freshly revealed government X-files. And, by extension, calls into question the Times’ wisdom in taking his claims about extraterrestrial encounters at face value."

    Double ho hum, and again a reminder at best we have another garden variety UFO with emphasis on the U.
     
  20. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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  21. dumbest man on earth Real Eyes Realize Real Lies Valued Senior Member

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    I guess, for clarification, I must ask, Gawdzilla Sama, were you "dabbling into the supernatural and/or paranormal" when you Posted the above quoted question?

    Why do you suppose that anyone would infer that from the 'definitively determine' in your question?
     
  22. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    I inferred that he points to a host of other possibilities: light illusion, mirage, radar glitch, etc.

    I got the impression he thinks everybody jumped a little too quickly from 'we saw something / imaged something' to 'it's a real object'.
     
  23. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    dmoe has a habit of not being able to see the forest for the trees...and on most occasions he also misses those, weighed down by his "agenda"!

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