Punishing women for false accusation of rape

Discussion in 'Ethics, Morality, & Justice' started by paddoboy, Jul 15, 2019.

  1. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    8,466
    vive la différence

    ........................
    couple years ago
    I went to the checkout line at the lumberyard. The cashier had long curly light reddish hair that came down 4 inches below her shoulders. I said: "Love your hair" she said: "Thank you".

    I suspect that both our pupils dilated for a brief moment.

    .........................
    and
    as/re :
    The last time I went into the bank, it was a slow day and both tellers(one male, one female) beckoned me over... The guy spoke first, and to him I went. On the shelf next to the window, they have business cards with the name and face of the teller----his were of a woman named Shirley -----ok--- so I pointed to the cards and complimented him on the success of his sex change operation.
    they both laughed
    and
    he explained that he was new, the bank was changing its name, and had held off on having the new cards printed up.
    by then, we were counting cash, and I was leaving with a fist full of dollars, and a happier day.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2019
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  3. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    There's an incredible amount of thoughtless stuff about. Look at this: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/49030556

    How clunkingly crass can you be?

    But this is Mexico. Latin America today is probably about 10-20 years off the pace compared to N America. It's an evolution, I suppose.
     
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  5. wegs Matter and Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    lol Yea, even at work, compliments in general aren't taboo. An example might be ''hey, your hair looks nice today,'' to which someone answers thank you. But, the wrong type of compliment at work would be ''hey, that hairstyle makes you look sexy.'' Still a compliment, but starting to cross the line.

    I think if we're honest, we all know what flirting looks like...we all know what pushing boundaries looks like.
     
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  7. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Agreed. There are some kinds of relationships (power exchange) where that's explicit. The man (or woman) makes all the decisions, tells the other person what to do etc. People who are into that have a rule called "safe, sane, consensual" to make sure that's not abused. (And while today the term "power exchange" describes somewhat-kinky relationships, they are ironically often similar to what a traditional 1950's marriage was like.)

    In those relationships there is a planned imbalance of power, and it's really important to talk about limits and expectations beforehand. But in the public sphere there are similar relationships where the limits and expectations are _not_ discussed. Unfortunately those are often assumed; take the waitress who gets felt up occasionally but puts up with it because otherwise she won't get a tip, or the cop who is an asshole to people he pulls over because they are in a position where they can't talk back.

    In those cases it's incumbent on people to a) treat the other person with respect as a baseline and b) be clear about expectations. And often this is best done by someone OTHER than the person without power. If the waitress says "don't touch my ass again, sir" or "please don't call me sweety" she's an uptight bitch - but if the owner puts up a sign that says "treat our staff with respect or leave" then he's just taking care of his employees.

    And that's the role that advocates can play. In a case where you see a Paddoboy calling someone "love" and being overly chummy about the olive oil, it can help to say "hey, I don't know that that's all that respectful to her." That way the salesperson (the person without power) isn't on the hook to say something and perhaps get a nasty note from the customer to her boss. And if the person is mad at you - just another customer - there's nothing you lose. Other than perhaps having to deal with an angry glare or being called a pervert.

    Advocates can also be taken more seriously because there's nothing for them to gain, so they aren't seen as having an "ulterior motive." When a woman speaks up for better pay, she is often dismissed. "Oh, she's just a feminist who is mad she isn't making a lot of money, so she's playing the sexism card." But when I advocate for equal pay for women, they can't say that, because as a white straight guy I don't (directly) benefit from women making the same money as men.

    True story - at SUNY Stony Brook, Michael Kimmel (a professor of sociology) had a colleague who was teaching a course on women's studies. He came in at her invitation as a guest lecturer, and he overheard a student say "oh, good, now we'll get an unbiased opinion." The student was assuming that their normal professor - a woman - would bring a gender bias into women's studies, and that he as a man would therefore have no bias. That's the power of being an advocate who is not directly involved in the situation.
     
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  8. wegs Matter and Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    Great points. It might seem that women in business are on guard, always looking for the pervert lurking around the corner or whatever...or trying to catch a guy uttering the slightest offense. That's honestly not the case, at least for me. I'm pretty laid back but when men flirt with me in business, whether it is a coworker or a client, it just creates an awkwardness that doesn't need to be there. I don't need to tolerate it to prove that I'm ''one of the guys.'' Men don't need to tolerate it, either. If you can't spend 5 days per week, in a work setting with people of the opposite sex without pushing boundaries and saying inappropriate things, it shows a lack of integrity.

    I think we had this discussion in the introvert thread if I'm not mistaken. lol
     
  9. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Yeah, me either. There's a danger, though, that people can think "well, since I am OK with it, everyone else should be, too." It's a natural thing to think but unfortunately not generally accurate.
     
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  10. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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  11. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    I might quibble with the word "all". Look what thread we are in.

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  12. wegs Matter and Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    Lmao!
     
  13. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    By the way, I got 10 warning points for this thread. Seems a little misplaced to me but I'm biased.
     
  14. wegs Matter and Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    Oh...why?
     
  15. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    Apparently my first post was personal, homophobic and made light of sexual abuse.

    Never mind that I was the first person (I think) to call Paddoboy on his nonsense. He filed a complaint, James determined that I broke those rules and the rest is history.

    Given the nonsense that goes on, on a daily basis in these threads I found it rather hard to accept as a reasonable thing to do but it is what it is.

    The post was replying to Paddoboy when he stated that he was an alter boy for years and he was never molested. Rather than specifically point out the obvious problems with that line of thinking I said, I guess you just weren't masculine enough as a kid.

    Therefore, in the view of James, I was homophobic, personalizing my remarks to Paddoboy and I was making light of the issues of the Catholic Church.

    That is if you have no sense of humor.

    Mark Turner posted his posts that no one can understand about neurological control and after several posts like that I responded, "oh now I get it, that explains it, thanks for the post".

    James then replies to my post with "I don't get it so please explain it to me." I'm sure every other person in the world who read my response laughed and realized that I was being sarcastic. James thinks I'm serious.

    This is the same James that reads my post in the Paddoboy thread and thinks, "hey he is attacking Paddoboy, is borderline homophobic and is making light of those molested kids. We've got to regulate this so I can get back to trying to figure out Mark Turner".

    We've got to keep this site running smoothly after all.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2019
  16. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    No, paddoboy did not file any complaint, and I hope James will verify that.
    Like to try again?
     
  17. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    I don't know who else would report it but I'll take you at your word on that one.
     
  18. wegs Matter and Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    Do posts/threads always need to be reported in order to be actionable? Maybe just ask James.

    I'm not aware of the point system, I should read the forum rules on that.

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  19. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    Mod Hat — Something, something, mumble, murmur

    Stop while you're behind. That flag was as easy a call as there is, so much so that it was issued.
     
  20. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    I don't know but in the email he said it was reported.
     
  21. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    No.

    There are, actually, rules, around here, and last I checked they are still in effect. In theory, determining violations is left to the moderator, but the standard for action is a much narrower consideration of aesthetics.
     
  22. wegs Matter and Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    I know there are rules, and there should be. I was just curious as to if mods pick up stuff on their own, or do they wait for it to be reported? Good to know, Tiassa.
     
  23. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    No soup for you and 10 demerit points!

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