Brexit: Parliament Suspended

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Tiassa, Aug 29, 2019.

  1. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,447
    bang on !
    Age of the complicit only child narcissist, dressed well and talking politely.
     
  2. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  3. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,447
    starving street urchants selling crude north sea oil to Americans dressed like clowns acting panto
     
  4. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  5. LaurieAG Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    586
    They should lock the MP's up in parliament and throw away the key, especially if/when the EU boots the UK without a deal.
     
    RainbowSingularity likes this.
  6. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  7. billvon Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    21,635
    I can just see Xi Jinping watching the Brexit debacle, and the catastrophe that the US administration has become, just sitting back and smiling.
     
  8. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    37,884

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!


    The show must go on:

    U.K.'s Parliament voted 328-301 on Tuesday night to take control of the legislative agenda in an effort to stop Prime Minister Boris Johnson from forcing through a no-deal Brexit on Oct. 31.

    Why it matters: The lawmakers who voted in favor of the motion include a number of high-profile rebels in Johnson's own Conservative Party. They were stripped of their affiliation after the vote. Parliament on Wednesday will vote on a bill to force Johnson to seek a Brexit extension from the European Union. Operating under the assumption that the bill will pass, Johnson said he will introduce a motion tonight to dissolve Parliament and hold a general election an Oct. 14.

    • Whether that vote to hold an election will receive the necessary two-thirds majority remains to be seen, however, as the Labour Party may oppose the effort in order to ensure that a no-deal Brexit is taken off the table completely.​


    Calling the day "devastating" for the Prime Minister, Zachary Basu↱ notes in his report for Axios that expelled Conservatives include eight former cabinet ministers and Churchill's grandson.

    Jen Kirby↱, of Vox, explains:

    In other words, just another day in the ongoing Brexit saga.

    On Tuesday, Parliament voted, 328 to 301, to seize control so it could debate a bill that would attempt to prevent the United Kingdom from leaving the European Union without a plan in place on October 31. About 20 members of Johnson's Conservative Party rebelled against him for the vote. The vote was greeted with cheers, and cries of "not a good start, Boris!"

    Johnson called attempts to delay Brexit "pointless"—and said that he would seek to put forward a motion calling for general elections.

    This is a lot of drama, but it doesn't change anything right now. Members of Parliament (MPs) have taken control, but they haven't actually passed any legislation that would block a no-deal Brexit.

    †​

    Johnson's ploy to get around Parliament is perhaps understandable, given that Parliament has been incredibly frustrating throughout the entire Brexit process. MPs can't agree on an exit plan, or even on what kind of relationship they want with the EU after the divorce, yet they have consistently voted against leaving the EU without a deal.

    Johnson says he's willing to do just that: to rip the UK out of the EU without a plan in place. His move infuriated members of Parliament, including some in his own party, who referred to it as "tantamount to a coup." But it also helped motivate opponents of a no-deal Brexit, who now had to work even more quickly to thwart Johnson ....

    .... In an appeal to the public as much as to MPs, the prime minister argued that Parliament is undermining his attempts to forge a new agreement with the European Union. Johnson maintains he needs to keep the threat of a no-deal Brexit—which would be bad for the EU, if still way worse for the UK—on the table, to pressure the EU into giving in to his demands.

    If Parliament keeps getting involved, he explained, asking for delays or balking at a no-deal exit—or as Johnson colorfully put it, "chop[ping] off the legs out from under the UK position"—the EU will have no incentive to renegotiate.

    Johnson also threatened to call an election "which I don't want and you don't want." In other words: I'm not going back to the EU to ask for more time, and if you pass this legislation forcing me to do it, I'm going to have no choice but to go back to the people.

    What stands out is the adversarialism. One way or another, London will need to get along with the E.U., eventually.
    ____________________

    Notes:

    Basu, Zachary. "Parliament defeats Boris Johnson to take control of Brexit process". Axios. 3 September 2019. Axios.com. 3 September 2019. http://bit.ly/2lCDaCU

    Kirby, Jen. "UK Parliament seizes control in an attempt to avert no-deal Brexit". Vox. 3 September 2019. Vox.com. 3 September 2019. http://bit.ly/2lVCb0V
     
  9. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    23,328
    I am not sure whether it has already been addressed, but it is worth asking, who gains the most from a hard brexit?
    Remembering the UK's loss will be picked up elsewhere. Mostly by the EU.
    The EU's position is really very strong and the Bexiteers fail to realise who is going to win the most out of all this. IMO.
    Breaking the back of the UK finacial sector alone means what to the EU? For example.
     
  10. Sarkus Hippomonstrosesquippedalo phobe Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    10,356
    It’s not about who wins the most, but who loses the most.
    Neither side wins from Brexit of any description. The best deal financially at least is the UK staying inside the EU.

    The UK will lose the most in almost every scenario, unless they have some incredible luck with securing sizeable trade-deals with almost every other country in the short term. Not just US, but India, China, etc.
    The EU will initially lose the net 9 billion GBP or so that the UK contributes each year, so that will hurt the either the larger economies who will need to stump up more to fill the gap, or the smaller economies who won’t get as large a hand out. But it won’t be too painful for them.
    I think the EU exports more to the UK than they import, but those exports are spread across all the countries, whereas the UK alone will take the hit for all of the damage on their side. E.g. if trade was equal you might get 1% impact on all EU countries, but a 10% impact in the UK (% just illustrative).

    There’s no doubt that the EU want a trade deal, and we will eventually get one even if we leave without. It just means that we will trade on WTO terms until that new deal is eventually signed (maybe 10+ years in the future) rather than trading on current terms while a deal is thrashed out.

    Breaking the back of the UK financial sector won’t happen, though. It is too strong and too important. It will get hurt, for sure, especially in a no-deal scenario, but it will almost certainly survive as Europe’s (as opposed to EU’s) leading financial services centre.

    But yeah, a hard Brexit is going to damage the UK economy, with some ripple effect globally. There will be no winners at a national level, only individual investors who take advantage. But it’s a fairly robust economy, and it will pick up again after the initial hit, growing more slowly than had we still been a part of the EU. But that’s the price we get for people being precious about their sovereignty. And if anything, the last 2 years has shown that even with sovereignty the UK political landscape is capable of being even more bloated, pathetic and pointless than our picture of the EU.
     
    Quantum Quack likes this.
  11. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,447
    lack of regulation & rampant Globalization to service unrealistic capital growth greed has stood by and waved a cheery welcome & goodbye to national industry.
    China did what Capitalists wanted them to do.
    now they produce everything and the average working class westerner cant afford to exist without buying Chinese products.
    The average working class Brit buys Chinese products and European food
    while those same people as government made it happen.
    its like a different version of the 2008 global credit collapse & sub prime mortgage scam.

    but china is not scamming anyone.
    it was the Labour government allowing rampent globalisation to undermine working class wages instead of taking a stand.
    then the Torys who allowed anything to happen with industry and so off ran the big companys laying off tens of thousands of jobs.
    marching along to "globalisation"
    blaming it on the European Union to make them out to be some big baddy with ill intent is completely nonsense.

    now its a trade war(usa china), made by the western governments.
    BREXIT is the peoples reaction to that rampant globalization which was being done at the cost of the average working class.


    British cottage industry
    British manufacturing
    The financial sector are down sizing & innovating into technology to remove the need for administration jobs... that's a global reality that government economists should have been staying well ahead of and planning and innovating

    instead, they were busy hammering the poor and the sick and disabled pretending they were tightening their own belts
    did their MP and government salary's go down ?
    no
    now who is going to take the big hit ?
    the working class with higher prices (inflation) and more job losses while small innovator British industry will be left out in the cold with no market access.

    why Corbyn was allowed to be painted as a hopeless socialist idealist i dont know.
    maybe that was the labour party imploding from soo many years of kissing corporate globalists bums.
    they could be the answer to the question instead of being labelled and acting like just another antagonist to a problem that no one seems to comprehend or be truthful about.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2019
  12. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    37,884
    [#chlorinatedchicken | #biggirlsblouse | #torytorytory]

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!


    (#nevermind): When else am I going to have occasion to use this detail of an ultimate poseur?

    "You can't deny the wonder of Johnson's wit. 'You're a chlorinated chicken' he told Corbyn. That's why the fees are £5 million a term at Eton."


    There comes a point when facing up to the fact of how often the British prefer Tory rule—

    A "chlorinated chicken" and a "big girl's blouse"—British Prime Minister Boris Johnson kicked off his first questions in parliament by goading opposition Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn for not backing a new general election.

    At Prime Minister's Questions, a parliamentary session when lawmakers get to quiz the British leader every Wednesday, Johnson used some choice language to attack Labour and try to rally his Conservatives after a bruising night on Tuesday.


    (Piper↱)

    —it becomes possible to believe this manner of oughtabe flaccidity is what they voted for.

    The Reuters report also notes:

    Johnson, whose government has lost its majority after he axed 21 lawmakers from his party, wants to hold a snap election to shake up parliament, which is deeply divided over Brexit and rejected his predecessor Theresa May's exit deal with the EU three times.

    There is an American joke about conservatives complaining that government doesn't work while laboring to demonstrate the thesis; they're right, dysfunction is what you get when you elect American conservatives. Like, it's what, forty-six months later↱, for instance, and a family-values Republican who got caught telling a staffer to falsely out him as gay in order to cover for a heteroxexual extramarital affair he was having with a fellow family-values Republican legislator has finaly pled no contest↱ to willful neglect of duty, a misdemeanor bringing as much as a year in jail, and there might still be perjury charges to settle, which we can pretend to not expect comparared to Republican rule in Michigan. Then again, this one was pretty damn embarrassing, so, right. Still, Michigan is an example of what antisocial politicking gets. To wit, if I say the bit with keeping orphans out of stable, loving homes for the sake of supremacism is tied to the abrogation of democracy eventually leading directly to the Flint water crisis, please understand, voters in the Mitten State seem to want it this way; majorities have delivered this unto the people. And the unfortunate Courser-Gamrat affair? Well, right, family-values Republicans are the reason Christians are empowered to keep orphans away from stable, ready, willing homes. This spirit of dysfunction drives our conservatives, it is near to the heart of Donald Trump's presidency.

    And it seems British conservatives would hope to one-up their American counterparts; in no wise shall the colonial upstarts out-tory the Tories. If I could explain why the bit about model buses keeps striking me in terms of Americans tiring on dynasty just in time to elect Trump, it has to do with complaints that others had already crowned Hillary Clinton. Yet it almost seems as if Boris Johnson's entire celebrity, and rise from Mayor to Prime Minister, was very nearly foreordained as a conservative protest against the observable fact of civilized society: How was Boris Johnson the obvious choice for Tories, at this time, if not for the sake of wrecking the place?

    Meanwhile, in a related Reuters report:

    Britain's economy is in serious danger of entering its first recession since the financial crisis as business confidence wilts in the Brexit chaos, a closely watched business survey showed on Wednesday.

    Growth in Britain's dominant services sector slowed to a crawl in August and business expectations were at their lowest in more than three years, according to the IHS Markit/CIPS UK Services Purchasing Managers' Index (PMI).

    Its headline reading fell to 50.6 from 51.4 in July — barely above the 50 barrier between growth and contraction. A Reuters poll of economists had pointed to a reading of 51.0.

    The survey added to questions over Britain's ability to bounce back from an economic contraction in the second quarter when a hangover from the stockpiling boom before the original Brexit deadline in March hit output.

    PMI compiler IHS Markit said the overall economy looked on track to shrink again in the July-September period at a quarterly rate of 0.1% — a result that would officially herald a recession.

    Andy Bruce↱ goes on to assert: "Prime Minister Boris Johnson will try to call a snap election on Wednesday after lawmakers seeking to prevent him taking Britain out of the European Union without a divorce deal dealt him a humbling parliamentary defeat."

    These hours later, I don't see it in the headlines, yet, but that's a pretty definitive statement compared to the general expectation of a snap election later. To the other, Wednesday isn't over.
    ____________________

    Notes:

    Bollinger, Alex. "This Tea Party politician made up a wild gay sex scandal about himself. He might go to jail for it." LGBTQ Nation. 3 September 2019. LGBTQNation.com. 4 September 2019. http://bit.ly/2kui5uf

    Bruce, Andy. "Brexit-worn Britain looks on track for recession—PMI". Reuters. 4 September 2019. Reuters.com. 4 September 2019. https://reut.rs/2lCryzQ

    Piper, Elizabeth. "'Chlorinated chicken' and a 'big girl's blouse'—Johnson taunts Corbyn on election". Reuters. 4 September 2019. Reuters.com. 4 September 2019. https://reut.rs/2lByUny

    Steel, Mark. "You can't deny the wonder of Johnson's wit. 'You're a chlorinated chicken' he told Corbyn. That's why the fees are £5 million a term at Eton." Twitter. 4 September 2019. Twitter.com. 4 September 2019. http://bit.ly/2lBO8cc
     
  13. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    37,884
    [#AmericanPrestige | #WhatTheyVotedFor]

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!


    Today is just ....

    But, after he said all these nice things about the “Emerald Isle” and how much his boss Donald Trump—he sent his best wishes, by the way—appreciates us and all we do to help American security in Shannon, he delivered a very strong endorsement of Boris Johnson and Brexit.

    No room left for doubt. As Pence read from the autocue and Irish eyes definitely stopped smiling, it was clear he was channeling His Master's Voice. Trump is a fan of Brexit and of Boris.

    And this, after such a lovely morning, with Pence and his mother meeting the Taoiseach and his mother.

    His Irish mother, as Mike calls her. He dotes on Nancy. So he should have known that any Irish mammy will tell you if you can't say anything good, say nothing at all.

    Miriam Lord's↱ column for the Irish Times ran under the title, "How Mike Pence shat on the new carpet in Ireland's spare room".

    The Trump administration long ago ran out of room for excusing themselves according to incompetence. In this they do not wish to be excused; this was a calculated insult.

    As the air in the steamy ballroom turned decidedly frosty, Pence urged Ireland and the European Union "to negotiate in good faith" with the new British prime minister.

    The local crowd raised eyebrows and wondered what he thinks the aforementioned EU has been doing for the last three years, if not negotiating in good faith with the UK.

    When the best the Administration can show is the meanest, dumbest spirit, diminishing American prestige and influence pandering to ignorant and harmful will, yes, we look to Republicans, the party who says government doesn't work, because this sort of thing is precisely #WhatTheyVotedFor.
    ____________________

    Notes:

    Lord, Miriam. "How Mike Pence shat on the new carpet in Ireland's spare room". The Irish Times. 3 September 2019. IrishTimes.com. 4 September 2019. http://bit.ly/2lzL5RB
     
  14. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    37,884
    And there it is:

    Boris Johnson will call for a general election on 15 October if Labour and rebel Tories succeed in blocking a no-deal Brexit.

    He challenged Jeremy Corbyn to put his policy of "dither and delay" over EU withdrawal to the British people.

    Mr Johnson needs the support of two-thirds of MPs to trigger an election.

    This report from the BBC↱ has been up for a while; my earlier note↑ about not seeing the election call was looking for something more prominent.
    ____________________

    Notes:

    British Broadcasting Corporation. "Boris Johnson challenges Jeremy Corbyn to back October election". 4 September 2019. BBC.com. 4 September 2019. https://bbc.in/2lYZcjF
     
  15. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    23,328
    I really am unqualified to seriously comment however I get the distinct impression that it is often forgotten that the EU appears to have a very strong position in all this.
    Has any one considered that they might actually be happy about a hard Brexit rather than a negotiated Brexit.
    A hard Brexit would mean that the UK would be at a distinct disadvantage in any post hard Brexit negotiations. It will be much more important for the UK to secure trading deals than the EU.
    The EU only have to delay any post Brexit negotiations and the advantage increases as far as I can tell...
    The UK sweats it out getting more desperate by the month sort of strategy. EU may be anticipating that after 12 months or so the UK will be begging for a deal.
     
  16. Sarkus Hippomonstrosesquippedalo phobe Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    10,356
    The fun thing here is that, as Her Majesty's loyal opposition, it should be that the Labour party eagerly accept the call for a general election. Corbyn has clamoured for one at every possible turn, and now, presented one on a platter, his hand hovers over it while he contemplates the trap being set.
    The issue now is the timing of any election, coupled with the majority in Parliament having somewhat of a distrust either of Johnson or, more likely, his chief of staff Cummins, seemingly the chief strategist behind Johnson's gambits. The issue is whether Johnson calling for an election on the 15th October will actually stick to that date. 'Cos when Parliament is disolved in the run-up to an election, the PM can still make changes by proclamation. He could, using this, push the date of the election until after the 31st October, the date at which the UK is currently set to leave the EU.
    So we have a situation in which the Smeagol-esque Corbyn, craving after his preciousss general election, actually has to reject the call, either until after the EU have granted an extension, or at least until they are satisfied that the agreed date can not be changed.
    And so for the next short while at least the UK basically has a zombie government: a PM with no majority, no means of enacting any legislation (excepting the current legislation requiring the PM to request an extension, which is being fast-tracked), and no order of business to discuss. All we'll get are bloated promises and tiresome electioneering from politicians that we have all grown weary of, if not contemptuous of. It's like a group of people come in and trash your house, only for you then to have to decide which of them becomes your landlord.
     
  17. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    23,328
  18. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,447
    who the Tory Rebel Tea Party want the voters to think they are


    who they really are ...

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!



     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2019
    Michael 345 likes this.
  19. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,447
    they must have spent thousands on tea n cafes to stuff their big fat lying faces with already
    all paid for by poor sick working class children

    lock them in and feed them only carrot & prune juice & pickled herring & onion salad until they do their job and make a deal.

    anyone MP who wants to leave for any (medical or fake medical or panama bankers urgent appointment)reason must resign from their seat & the party.

    • BREXIT Day 912...
    we have been working really hard
    we will have a deal sorted for you soon
    please keep paying us 4 times the average wage from your tax money that we have taken from schools and hospitals and the disabled and elderly....

    • Prune Juice & pickled herring and raw onions Day 2
    we have the deal done we are all queuing up to sign it
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2019
    Michael 345 likes this.
  20. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    37,884
    One of those testable things, and altogether breathtaking tweet offered up by veteran journalist Paul Waugh↱, earlier today:

    Latest intel from the red benches. If Lords sits thru night and don't adjourn until after 10.30am tmrw (Thurs), it is still technically a 'Wednesday' until peers decide otherwise.
    In parl terms, it could still be 'Wednesday' in Lords *for several days* until peers sort things.

    Apparently, this has to do with a particular bill needing to clear its process by "Friday".
     
    Sarkus and Michael 345 like this.
  21. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,077
    Truly Alice in Wonderland stuff or as Cher would put it


    Seems it can be done

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  22. Sarkus Hippomonstrosesquippedalo phobe Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    10,356
    Ah, the peculiarities of a system steeped in history!
    The effort at filibustering in the Lords came to a close at about 1:30am this morning, I think.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  23. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,447
    i wonder if anyone has done a costing of what BREXIT will cost for administration.
    millions
    how much will they lose if they allow it to drag on and be forced out as the people wish ?
    billions

    while some say the right thing to do is re-join the EU and then seek amendments
    that's not what the people want

    what confounds me is why MP's think it is better to drag their heals and cost the country billions instead of getting on with the administration part and saving billions while loosing millions.

    now it seems Labor wish to allow the Tory party to implode
    which as to be expected of Labor considering all the austerity the torys have engaged in for years on the heals of the Labor government not forcing big regulatory changes.

    it appears that Brittan will be forced out and then a general election will have to be called.
    possibly the worst possible result
    it may give Labour & Greens a fraction of a chance at winning, but the tory majority seems too big.
    the biggest break from the torys is the BREXIT party "rebel tea party" and they will never vote for labour.
    they certainly wont join into give labour the win.

    dead locked ...
    will HM have to step in and dissolve parliament and set for a new round of general elections after disbanding all political partys ?

    would that make a different more sensible leadership ?
    total guess work
     

Share This Page