Fixing the climate.

Discussion in 'Earth Science' started by Xelasnave.1947, Nov 12, 2019.

  1. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    21,634
    There is no practical way. We might be able to in 50 years, but it would exact a huge toll in terms of resources, money and time. Is that the best place to spend those resources? How many tons of coal should we burn to accomplish that? How many tons of launcher should we discard?
    Again, there's no comparison. Learning how to run a Sabatier process to recycle CO2, learning how to scavenge more air from an airlock, learning how to make more efficient stationkeeping engines gives us exactly zero insight into our problems here on Earth.

    I am all for research on the ISS. It will help our future space endeavors. It will not solve any environmental problems here on Earth. Indeed, if you want to "go green" with the ISS - switch to methalox engines in the resupply rockets as soon as possible. Not that that will help us learn to save our own environment, it will just pollute a bit less while we are doing unrelated research.
     
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  3. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    Approx 20,000,000,000,000 Watts consumed say 2500 watts per person cut that back to 2000 watts per person ( how you could fit a way to manage corporations use etc on a population approach I don't know...but the must be a lot of people using very little or virtually none of that huge number.
    Folk who don't use power could sell their entitlement or part thereof to someone who wants more power...
    Alex
     
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  5. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    'tis only asking the question and applying the insights gained.
    It all so demonstrates how much resource is needed to support one individual and how quickly this planet is going to be stripped bare.
    and if you apply the data correctly it can be enormously helpful in establishing a bare minimum base line for humans regardless of where they are...

    yes... that's the sort of data needed and utilized in setting goals etc.
    Find out what the minimalist position is, as a base line.


    Example Q:
    How many old growth large trees are needed to sustain one humans ability to breath comfortably on average?
     
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  7. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    8,502
    And a similar system with birth rights set a target, you can have the right to X Children which you can sell.
    I will do some sums.
    Alex
     
  8. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    250000 births a day I seem to remember cut that back to 200000 to get it rolling
    Alex

    I know it's crazy but it's one of those things that when you start to think about is so logical.

    As a human we each have the right to do much air, children and consumption generally those rights should be quantified.
    Alex
     
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  9. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    23,328
    Having children could be contingent upon how much provision you make to support them... example: trees, water, food, energy etc...
    Silly example:
    Must plant x number of trees for every child born, support those trees etc...
     
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  10. wegs Matter and Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    Wouldn’t this negatively impact immigration, though?
     
  11. parmalee peripatetic artisan Valued Senior Member

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    Speaking solely to electrical consumption, the average daily household use (excluding industry, of course) for the U.S. is over 30 kWh. For Europe, it's between 7 and 15 kWh, and Australia is around 15 kWh. For the life of me, I cannot figure out how the hell a single household manages to consume 30 kWh daily. My own household consumption is between 4 and 5 kWh daily, and our only other energy source is firewood--but even if we were to use electric exclusively (and we're in zone 5a--we see a few -30 s and -40s through the winter), it still wouldn't even approach 30 kWh.

    But, yeah, Americans will never "cut back" their consumption (of anything) of their own volition. Americans--70 percent of whom are overweight or obese--live to rape and pillage--or "consume," if one insists upon being polite about it.
     
  12. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    23,328
    Probably air conditioning... reverse cycle . Always on. My guess...
     
  13. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    Yes so perhaps you can see why I concluded there must be a huge number of humans using little or no power.
    Another way to look at it I suppose is to take your fair estimate and multiply that number by 7 billion.
    And see how far above the energy produced (in 2018) would be if everyone was consuming what we agree here is reasonable...I have lived on only 100 amp hour 12volt ..so I only had 20 Amps to safely use... But then there was petrol...but that would come out maybe 400 watts a day .. but I have been living off grid and by myself so you can get a little ruff...hard for a family for example.
    I have solar and battery for my van but need 2000 watt Genny to run an airconditioner.
    And that is how it is for city folk to a degree..it's the heating of water, cooling or heating room space, and cooking takes heaps of electricity.
    Main main motivations is just having power but you realise you can live on less or use twice as much.
    It's not only Americans.
    It's hard to blame them as they are the expected product of our culture starting with Devine entitlement thru to being fed poor culture movies.
    Hopefully things will get better.
    Alex
     
  14. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    Wall technology has come a long way.
    Alex
     
  15. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    entropic decay of the human predatory cannibal ideology
     
  16. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    8,502
    There would be an enormous saving in energy if the was more solar. The way to approach solar in my view is to have folk accept that it may not take care of all their power it will reduce your consumption from the grid, you may not get much Sun but if if cuts your mains needs by only 20% that is a contribution to your grid energy requirements and at some point mean less fuel of whatever kind is needed..less mining and easing problems various fuel suppliers have with their particular product be it coal gas Uranium. If everyone could reduce consumption by 20% you are a long way there ..I know idealistic...
    Now here is another..we set giant fans in orbit to somehow drive down the cold from space... Now that would work. We create our own jet stream that goes up out and back..air conditioned Earth.

    We laugh but we could make that work...need numbers for desired temperature drop so I can work out how many fans.

    Alex
     
  17. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    I think there needs to be thrashed out some founding principles first to guide further thought and action.

    For example:
    Products can not be manufactured unless a full, thorough and sustainable pathway to recycling is established and licensed.
    or
    The responsibility for the products recycling belongs to the manufacturer/importer etc...

    • Sustainability
    • Symbiosis
    • Balance
     
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  18. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    7,447
    profit margins of multiple layers of capitalistic systems designed to hold the consumer hostage
    aligned with a lazy attitude around learning by the customer
     
  19. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    8,502
    Yes I don't expect letters from your energy supplier setting out steps you can take to reduce your consumption.
    Introducing more efficient refrigeration and more efficient hot water cold and warm air etc is important.
    Better efficiency should not mean cut back in enjoyment only in consumption...
    Again solar hot water, it can really help, sure you need to heat it up with outside grid energy maybe but you will reduce your impact and not be worse off.
    Solar heating in winter to reduce part of the bill...The good thing is you may also save money...mmm money.
    Promote sensible changes in a non alarmist fashion with a spin that you better better and save money...and fear motivation..you do want to be capable of surviving off grid when the system brakes down...want to buy a wall...and gravity energy..cars can only travel down hill...
    Alex
     
  20. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    8,849
    Good points.

    Central planning shortage forced rationing for the people worker's paradise.
     
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  21. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    8,502
    An open letter to the world what each individual can do to be efficient and have a better life.
    Alex
     
  22. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    It's alright I hope to be running it what could go wrong with such a system.
    Alex
     
  23. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    Aussi wingnut leading the bandar-log capitalist profit greed cerebral cortex fascist masterplan.
     
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