The Trump Presidency

Discussion in 'Politics' started by joepistole, Jan 17, 2017.

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  1. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

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    oh so is that why you've condemned putin's invasion of ukraine and the illegal annexation of its territory? oh that's right you defended that so clearly you are lying your ass off and you do differentiate between war criminals. the US's crimes relatively minor compared to despots are the height of evil, the autocrats you like war crimes are all justified and perfectly okay. there is not an autocrat you don't love and a democracy you dont hate. you are little more than sycophant who desperately wants the respect of thugs
     
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  3. scorpius a realist Valued Senior Member

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    Russia is whole diferent animal then China,,Putin is a Diktator gangster plain n simple

    China is run by well educated scientists,engineers financial experts they have their sht together like you cant imagine and work continuously on Poverty aleviation for ALL
    For some reason Our news networks never mention that,
    Maybe the word comunism scares our Rich Overlords ?
    Its not just comunism its also Capitalism as Chinas largest number of Bilionaires in the world now proves
    China with its 5000 years history had obviously plenty o wars famines and upheavals
    But now its on the right track
    US is baby in diapers in comparison plenty o strugles ahead imo








    Since our western media blocks all positive news about China it would be good idea for you people to talk directly to our expats livin in China to learn the Truth
    Try
    Gweilo60 chanel or Reporterfy media travel or Blondie in China or
    Richard Augilar or Nathan Rich or Jayoe nation or Living in China
    Good luck
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2020
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  5. scorpius a realist Valued Senior Member

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    US crimes are minor ?



    Truth hurts yes
     
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  7. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    30,994
    Sounds like the US under Herbert Hoover.
    Looks like it, too, in some ways.

    China's banking system is not transparent, and is centrally controlled by a small number of secretive men accountable to no one. That's a recipe for financial disaster.

    China has installed the world's most oppressive surveillance system - of its own citizens. It has also annexed Tibet by military force, and imprisoned a large Muslim minority in a kind of community concentration camp rife with abuse and punishments.

    China has no apparent interest in, and apparently little comprehension of, environmental degradation and ecological damage (the risks it is taking with GMOs alone are serious to the point of apocalyptic).

    The benevolent authoritarian cabal, like the good king, is not entirely mythical. But it doesn't last long.
     
  8. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    The video with Norm is interesting. Especially when Norm used the possible consequences to the policy maker inferring that those consequences that may or may not happen were deliberately invoked by and to those who instigated the policy.
    Example:
    The President of Ukraine deliberately attempts to join NATO to destroy his own country by provoking Russia into invading. Norm assumes that the outcome is inevitable and IMO this is a major concern with his words.
    or:
    "You knew that killing that person was going to get you executed for the crime so therefore by murdering that person you committed suicide. Your decision to commit the murder can only be respected by sentencing you to death".

    It displays a profound insight but in the way he constantly uses it, it ultimately defeats itself. IMO
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2020
  9. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    What do you consider as China's historic borders/territory and why?
     
  10. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    20,069
    Genghis Khan
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genghis_Khan
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    https://www.scifacts.net/human/genghis-khan-death-toll/

    "Greatest conqueror" is an expression of admiration or of disgust?

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    How many people died under Alexander the Great?

    • I’ll give an estimate of 2.5 million, bringing the total number of people Alexander the Great caused to die at 3.5 million.
    "Alexander the Great" is an expression of admiration or disgust?
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2020
  11. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    20,069
    What Animals Kill The Most Humans Each Year?
    By Amber Pariona on April 28 2020 in Environment

    The Mosquito
    Human
    https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/the-animals-that-kill-most-humans.html
     
  12. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

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    nice strawman. good job keeping crows away from the thread
     
  13. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    I hope so...but I doubt it...
    Once they can stand on their own with out employing forced labor to build a wealthy middle class, similar to what North Korea is doing and what the USA did in the pre-civil war years then and only then could you consider that they are on the right track.
    Once they can survive the first rebellion due to their overzealous use of overt and covert population surveillance and the inevitable corruption that follows perhaps we can think that they are on the right track.
    How do the Chinese feel about having their liberty restricted based on some sort of AI algorithm that uses "How many times you bow down and lick boots" as a criteria? (sarc)

    No, come to think on it, the path they are heading down can only lead to revolution as the dystopian outcome will force it into existence. IMO
     
  14. Schmelzer Valued Senior Member

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    5,003
    I didn't. Because there was none in reality, only in Western propaganda fantasies.
    Nice that you give here some information about China. This is something I cannot give because I have not enough information about China.
    But why you repeat the Western propaganda against Putin? What he has reached for Russia is quite comparable with what the Chinese have reached. So, at the end of the Soviet Union, they were one of the greatest importers of wheat. Today they are the greatest exporter of wheat. The Chinese have managed the transfer from communism to capitalism, Putin has managed the transfer from a corrupt mafia-like oligarchy close he destruction and civil war to a stable state of law.

    Depends on the qualification of those men, not on the transparency. And, given the Chinese meritocracy, they may plausibly be quite competent. And, of course, these men are accountable, to the leadership.
    The Western propaganda about this is not reliable.
    https://www.moonofalabama.org/2020/...-told-by-chinese-defector-seem-to-evolve.html
    They had done a lot without caring about environment, simply because there were more important issues - poverty. If you have not enough to eat, you don't care much about dirty environment. This has already changed. They are, for example, planting a lot of trees, https://www.nasa.gov/feature/ames/h...inates-the-greening-of-earth-nasa-study-shows
    The Chinese system is not about a "good king".
     
  15. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    30,994
    So?
    Poverty is not a separate issue. Abusing the environment, destroying the resource base of the society, is one of the most common ways to become desperately poor; and the resulting equilibrium is often stable - have you acquainted yourself with what that means, yet?
    So why post examples of it? Do you expect to be able to get information from that site?
    No, it doesn't. Left to themselves, unregulated and unsupervised, bankers will blow up your economy - regardless of their expertise and qualifications.
    Apparently that's something every new corporate authoritarian government has to find out for themselves - but it's a painful lesson.
    Not yet. They don't have systematic capital ownership of land, for example - a fundamental matter.
    So did these guys, in the US: https://www.biography.com/news/famous-mob-mafia-bosses
    So did fascists everywhere, when they won.
    When you have to pretend that a physical reality (Russia having annexed Crimea by military force) does not exist, some kind of warning bell should go off in your head.
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2020
  16. Schmelzer Valued Senior Member

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    5,003
    Yes, and therefore I know that what you have written is nonsense. Because destroying something is a process which changes something, thus, not in equilibrium, and even less stable.

    In the case of China, there was no stable equilibrium, and also no destruction of the resource base of the society. The Chinese became richer, and then started to care about things like the environment.
    Yes. Quite different from your postings. A lot of information in the text itself, and a lot of links to the various sources.
    As explained, there are not unsupervised.
    They don't care about what you consider as fundamental.
    Thanks for explaining what Americans mean when they talk about "state of law". They mean fascist mafia rule.
    Except that annexation is a legal notion, thus, nothing that follows from physical reality. I know what has happened there on the ground much better than you. The disagreement is about the legal assessment.
     
  17. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    30,994
    Russia annexed Crimea by military force and threat. That is a physical fact, a recorded historical event. The people who make maps had to change those maps.
    Yes, you do. And yet you deny the obvious reality of the current situation. Apparently you are unwilling to use even standard terminology unless Putin's media feed approves it - we saw that with "fascist", but I mistook that for a one-off.
    So? If the State owns the land without having bought it, capital does not own the most significant means of production - and the economy differs from a capitalist economy in a fundamental way.
    Whether the Chinese care about not being capitalist is beside the point.
    As you emphasized, they (the Chinese central bankers) are experts not formally regulated or transparent or curbed in their employment of expertise - that is a recipe for disaster.
    The suboptimal equilibrium that frequently follows environmental degradation isn't a process of change, of course. It's an equilibrium, and very often a stable one. It can (and often does) maintain itself for hundreds of years, especially if there is no capable government at hand to enforce the sacrifices necessary for escaping it.

    Ruining one's environment very often stabilizes one's economy in the ruined state, which can then last for generations - there are hundreds of examples in human history, of which islands may be the easiest for rookies and newbies to assess: try your hand at Ireland, Easter Island, Iceland, or Cyprus (see if you can untangle this analysis of Cyprus: https://www.pnas.org/content/109/10/3670 noting the key concept of "sustainability", which is the core attribute of an equilibrium). Once you have caught on, take a look at Greece or subSaharan Africa or India/Pakistan.
    You could even bring your dislike of the US to bear, and consider Oklahoma or Nebraska (the agricultural regions in and around Nebraska were once the wealthiest regions, per capita, in America. New York City was poor, in comparison.)
    They are probably too late - if you only began to care about the environment after you wrecked it for money, digging out of that hole will take a massive effort and the sacrifice of much of your wealth. Look at what they have had to do to Tibet to secure their remaining water supply - when the climate change they are abetting kicks in there won't be another Tibetan glacier field within military conquest range.
     
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  18. Schmelzer Valued Senior Member

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    5,003
    Wikipedia writes: "[A]nnexation is a unilateral act where territory is seized and held by one state." What happened with Crimea was something different. Crimea declared its independence after the fascist coup in Kiev. This was a decision made by the parliament of Crimea, as it was democratically elected before the coup. Then, it held a referendum about joining Russia, and, once the population of Crimea supported the proposal to join Russia, the Crimea asked Russia to join. Russia accepted this. This is named accession. There was no unilateral act.
    You mean Western terminology? I see no reason to use it.
    If there is formal ownership by the state and you have sufficiently safe possibilities to rent land, or if there is ownership, with the state having the right to confiscate land if necessary, and instead of the rent the owner has to pay land tax, makes not much difference in reality.
    We will see. Up to now, there was no disaster. I'm more afraid of a disaster with banking in the US. You seem to think about the Chinese system as if it would be a Western system.
    The point being? The government of China seems quite capable, judging from what they have reached during the last decades.
     
  19. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

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    well except for the fact said vote happened after a russian invasion under russian arms. crimea was an annexation. crimea secession was illegal there was no fascist coup. funny how the actual fascist calls everyone he doesn't like a fascist. sorry militarily invading another country and and having your proxies run a fake independence vote under your guns is an unilateral annexation. for someone who loves russia so much your understanding of the history and geopolitics of eastern europe is laughable.
     
  20. Schmelzer Valued Senior Member

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    5,003
    Fine. Even you acknowledge that it was there, illegal or not. Then, learn that it was a declaration of independence by the parliament. The parliament elected before the coup. Then, there was also no invasion, because the Russians were already legally in Crimea (there was a large navy base) and because the government of Crimea has requested help against the coup.

    Then, everybody knows that the overwhelming majority of the Crimean population was in favor of joining Russia. Simply, for those who don't like the referendum, there have been a lot of polls even by pro-Western agencies with similar results. And the guys were not proxies, but those legally elected in the democratic elections before the coup.

    Here some of your non-fascist fighters:

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  21. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Here some of your non-fascist fighters:

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!



    Except that those are not US military personnel, but mercenaries for hire. Hence the masks!

    Note: I am totally opposed to hiring mercenaries.
    The are not required to pledge allegiance to the US flag and would certainly be forbidden to pledge allegiance to the Zwastika!
     
  22. Schmelzer Valued Senior Member

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    5,003
    I have never claimed they are US military personnel, they are not even US mercenaries. They are fighters for fascist ideas, fighters of the Azov battalion, fighting against the "Russian invasion". Wiki mentions that "In 2018, a provision in an appropriations bill passed by the U.S. Congress blocked military aid to Azov on the grounds of its white supremacist ideology." So we can be quite sure that they have received it before. More from that source:
    so that they receive US training too.
    The Canadians are especially active supporting Ukrainian Nazis - Canada was the preferred choice of emigration of the Bandera fascists, and they have done a lot to revive fascism in the Ukraine.
     
  23. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

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    hard to tell because you consistently call non fascist US fascist while defending the actually fascist russia
    showing of your rank hypocrisy we see. if the us did what russia did youd be screaming your empty little head off we were invading another country. we get it, you're a fascist wanna be that loves thugs but it still doesn't change the fact what russia did in ukraine was flagrently illegal. not to mention the fact the entire crisis was caused by russian involvment.
     
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