Non-sequitar!
Unplanned does not equate to unwanted...
Does the possibility that life has no meaning, bother you?
- Thread starter wegs
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Unplanned does not equate to unwanted...
RainbowSingularity
Valued Senior Member
if your god is a man
how can he know what its like to be a woman and ultimately create a woman ?
if god had a gender it would be more likely to be male than female
assuming god is not a bisexual hermaphrodite
sexuality reveal party ?
RainbowSingularity
Valued Senior Member
my question is at the end of a debate
the debate i have not posted
the scientific reality is the fact
the human ability to control ones own emotions & how they treat others is the core
the value of human life is the core
the transference of self accountability over the suffering of life & human life to a god aspect to remove ones self accountability is the core
the hypocrisy of those who dictate morals on others yet oppose social security
universal health care
universal housing
universal food
placing the "fact" before the human life value
by defining a post deductive reason of ends dictates the means
thus abject morals over subject morals
"meaning" = suffering
the right to suffer
the right to watch others suffer
etc ...
im shortening a rather in depth concept which most people simply leap frog like a zealot into & apply their indoctrinated bully morality of supremacy over others as a form of playing god
thus meaning of suffering
Xelasnave.1947
Valued Senior Member
One could think if a small tribe all would get health care, housing and food..or a life boat would the food not be shared equally?
But then you see these monkeys in the hot springs excluding some tribe members from the comfort of the warm water...so funny humans in a small group can act better than monkeys ( well at least in a life boat) but up the numbers and we find tribe members starving without a home dieing from a health problem they can't pay someone to fix.
Anyways why should I care, I have my van and plenty of food and not dieing of something I can't afford to have fixed.
And so funny usually those looking for the meaning in life could not give a rat's about the needy...they only look for meaning because they have time on their hands and well fed etc. Rather than what is the meaning of life they could ask..can I help anyone?
Alex
Seattle
Valued Senior Member
What if there was no one who needed help in the world? Would life no longer have meaning?
As long was there is at least one man (person) and one telescope, life has meaning.
Xelasnave.1947
Valued Senior Member
Funny once that was my thing..I just loved helping people..I still do...however it is so nice not to feel needed..I mean you are only kidding yourself but one gets the feeling it will all colapse if you don't go into the office today..well back then it would...but the reason I survived and did it was never for me strangely..it was to give the staff jobs and good bonuses, to help the vendors, the buyers the tenants and the landlords. It was like a hobby and not about the money...but now...
Yes now it's all about me... I live like I want to full on...now a little money helps when you are talking telescopes and mounts and cameras... I figure on past numbers that each photo in the future is costing me around a grand... five good ones a year and maybe I have five years left at it...it is crazy really...but when I remember where I was as a kid and all I have done and now doing I am happy as I could be...I don't need meaning being the shallow character I am...saw a huge black snake earlier ..it's winter..I am more interested in what that means...and as frisky as mid summer snake..that is odd...don't mind a black so good it was not a brown..if it had been a brown I may not be here..nasty when frisky.
Alex
Life has no meaning unless you're very rich and you need to be very rich to become happy.
But the system is designed so that most truly hard-working people will never become billionaires so the system kind of wants to keep us slaves to money.
With that said, I think that life only has meaning if you're good-looking and very rich, otherwise you will never achieve most of your goals, dreams and aspirations and that means most people who are not rich or good-looking will never achieve most of their their hopes and dreams.
But the system is designed so that most truly hard-working people will never become billionaires so the system kind of wants to keep us slaves to money.
With that said, I think that life only has meaning if you're good-looking and very rich, otherwise you will never achieve most of your goals, dreams and aspirations and that means most people who are not rich or good-looking will never achieve most of their their hopes and dreams.
I think we live in a very “works based” culture where our accomplishments while they have value sure, become the sole measure of a person’s worth. But I’m of the opinion that finding meaning and purpose has little to do with output and one’s earning potential. For example, does a doctor who chooses to earn a low wage in a third world country find life to have less meaning because he/she isn't earning as much as a doctor in North America? I'd have to say the doctor in the third world country might find more value in their contribution to society, because they're less driven by money as the arbiter of success. This doesn't mean all doctors in NA are driven by money, but some are, and to that end, I don't consider them to be ''successful.''
If money is what drives you in life, you'll eventually realize that it will become your master in life. For all those who have lost their incomes and/or jobs during Covid19, I'm hopeful they aren't jumping off cliffs because suddenly...life has no meaning now that they're faced with financial adversity. Money is a necessary means of exchange to provide shelter, food, clothing, etc., but if it is the sole thing that drives you in life, it's going to be a depressing life, for money comes and goes.
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exchemist
Valued Senior Member
How silly, self-pitying, defeatist and wrong. You've played this violin before. I think you should snap out of it.
It is commonly observed that people with very little, in poor countries, often seem happy with their lives. People finding meaning from all sorts of things. Very often it is connected to recognition by others in some way. In other words, a sense of something to be proud of. Lack of any recognition can undermine an individual's sense of identity and have the effect of making life seem pointless. But it has little or nothing to do with wealth or looks. That is a very shallow and materialistic view.
RainbowSingularity
Valued Senior Member
have you never met a work a holic who has made millions but cant stop working and doesnt really spend the excesses of what they earn ?
i have, several of them in different shapes and sizes.
some nice the occasional very distasteful
its not all that easily polarized
you cant simply swap power & control issues in place of money to equate the same human personality disposition toward what happiness is
i have met and chatted with a millionaire who likes to work in customer service
low to middle lower class income bracket
thats what makes them tick, they love it
they don't need to work, but that is what makes them happy.
Dennis Tate
Banned
I do think I would be annoyed if I felt that my life had little or no real meaning.
I am convinced from the testimonies of near death experiencers that there is truly significant meaning in our lives.....
and our cats and dogs and other pets also seem to be accomplishing more here in this four dimensional space - time continuum than we may tend to imagine!
Dennis Tate
Banned
I can see the logic in that!
I am of the belief that essentially infinite effort and energy over infinite time went into the DESIGN of each and every human spirit, soul and body......
and even in our very fallen states we are still works of art worth assisting on our way even in mundane aspects of customer service.
RainbowSingularity
Valued Senior Member
what use civility if there is no humility
thinking on wegs thread header question as a point of philosophical abstract ethical reasoning
does the concept of "meaning" or "no meaning" derive the need for an exterior judgemental pre disposition of value ?
i shall break that down for laymens understanding
if we assert there is meaning
does that meaning become created through another persons value system AND already exist prior to your comprehension of the philosophical premise ?
furthermore assuming we were to accept hat meaning exists
does that meaning validate or invalidate the perceivers concept of self ?
err-go
does the meaning exist without the person to comprehend it ?
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Dennis Tate
Banned
I personally do believe so and I would point to the various types of evidence that indicate reincarnation in some form is evidence that our lives have a longer term and much deeper value.
Here are five paragraphs from a book by a near death experiencer who saw Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus teaching his inner core of disciples.
Seattle
Valued Senior Member
Breaking it down for the laymen? Priceless.
I'm going to take a wild guess he was a Christian of some flavour
And speculate if he was another religion which believes in afterlife he would be preaching about meeting THAT religion's god
Funny / strange / weird how that works
Does this funny / strange / weird warrant a finger tips together in a arch pose? or rubbing hands together in a twisting motion pose?
Seattle
Valued Senior Member
I went back to read the OP. I find it to be an interesting subject but not one that has ever been an issue for me. I have a hard time even understanding how it could be an issue, in reality, for anyone.
Tolstoy was a worrier, or perhaps neurotic. OK, many people are.
Most people don't really derive the meaning in life from religion, even if they are religious and find that it helps them somewhat.
In that regard, religion provides potentially more meaning in life for those who have little hope in life. Think back to the days of peasants and serfs. If you have no joy in life, of course it's meaningful if you can convince yourself that "there's a better world in the next life".
Today, we find/provide our own meaning in life. If you can't find meaning in life then you are mostly to blame.
I'd argue that religion, in this regard, does more harm than good. If it encourages people to live for an afterlife while being miserable in this life...that's not a great message.
If you can't find meaning in life, dying isn't going to do much for you.
Tolstoy was intelligent but otherwise he was just a man so whether he found enjoyment in life or not it's not particularly meaningful or important. In a way that like saying if John Travolta isn't happy how can I be happy? Who cares? It's just John Travolta.
I do agree that we can find meaning in the bad times as well as in the good times. If you are experiencing something bad, you are still alive and it's all part of life. We wouldn't notice beauty if there was no ugly, it's the same with good and bad, pain and pleasure.
Sometimes you just have to embrace life. I've been in circumstances where your initial reaction might be to wish you were home and could just crawl into a warm bed. If you are in grave danger if you do nothing...that's not an option so you just have to embrace a tough situation.
That's how you survive. That's also how you live life. When you see a really old person sometimes you see all the wrinkles in their faces. That's character and that's someone who has done a lot of living.
Someone who is in the corner complaining about their life or someone who is just waiting to die to go where the streets are paved with gold...has just wasted a life, their life.
Tolstoy was a worrier, or perhaps neurotic. OK, many people are.
Most people don't really derive the meaning in life from religion, even if they are religious and find that it helps them somewhat.
In that regard, religion provides potentially more meaning in life for those who have little hope in life. Think back to the days of peasants and serfs. If you have no joy in life, of course it's meaningful if you can convince yourself that "there's a better world in the next life".
Today, we find/provide our own meaning in life. If you can't find meaning in life then you are mostly to blame.
I'd argue that religion, in this regard, does more harm than good. If it encourages people to live for an afterlife while being miserable in this life...that's not a great message.
If you can't find meaning in life, dying isn't going to do much for you.
Tolstoy was intelligent but otherwise he was just a man so whether he found enjoyment in life or not it's not particularly meaningful or important. In a way that like saying if John Travolta isn't happy how can I be happy? Who cares? It's just John Travolta.
I do agree that we can find meaning in the bad times as well as in the good times. If you are experiencing something bad, you are still alive and it's all part of life. We wouldn't notice beauty if there was no ugly, it's the same with good and bad, pain and pleasure.
Sometimes you just have to embrace life. I've been in circumstances where your initial reaction might be to wish you were home and could just crawl into a warm bed. If you are in grave danger if you do nothing...that's not an option so you just have to embrace a tough situation.
That's how you survive. That's also how you live life. When you see a really old person sometimes you see all the wrinkles in their faces. That's character and that's someone who has done a lot of living.
Someone who is in the corner complaining about their life or someone who is just waiting to die to go where the streets are paved with gold...has just wasted a life, their life.
RainbowSingularity
Valued Senior Member
let me just say 1st so there is no mistake
i respect your chosen spirituality
in what ever form you define it.
from my limited reading NDE has evidence based on things that are provable and the person was unable to attain.
there is some conjecture i have read about things like certain people having occurances.
one case with vague memory is the patient detailing another person in another adjacent room
there was no contact and the person was able to give details only known to the individual & some other clinical staff
this is a VERY rare occurrence and was a form of possible proof of some type of thing happening.
if as you say, you are very interested in this subject of NDE then you should familiarize yourself with those few encounters which have some form of scientific proof around them and look at those.
there is a few more in india where the belief is more widely accepted, however most information is word of mouth from people who WANT to believe so is unable to be accurately documented.
the believer wants to believe, the scientist wants to provide facts.
pain meds kicking in nicely excuse typos(low dose fyi combined with antibiotics)
and what fortunate luck i found some old antibiotics of the same type left over from some months back which i can extend my coarse with without having to pay for another doctor visit