UFOs (UAPs): Explanations?

Discussion in 'UFOs, Ghosts and Monsters' started by Magical Realist, Oct 10, 2017.

  1. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

    Messages:
    39,397
    Even assuming that UFOs are alien craft, there is zero evidence for this claim of yours.
     
  2. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  3. river

    Messages:
    17,307
    Really , how many enormous craft are observed by many witnesses , just hovering , or moving extremely slowly , never dropping out of the sky . Many
     
  4. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  5. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    18,935
    A helicopter or Hawker Harrier does that. Not exactly exotic technology.
     
  6. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  7. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    16,608
    One common aspect of ufos is that they are nearly always silent. This rules out the noisy aircraft you are talking about.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2021
  8. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    18,935
    I wasn't suggesting VTOLs or choppers as possible scenarios, simply pointing out that river's assertion, as stated, is demonstrably false.


    Note that "silent" is something they have in common with mirages, light reflections, planets and other false positives. In other words, not an observational property that distinguishes UFOs from these other things.
     
  9. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    16,608
    The fact that it is a ufo and therefore not identifiable as a mirage, swamp gas, or the planet Venus, makes the silence a key aspect of their nature. That along with other behavior such as hovering and high speed changes of direction/accelerations makes the ufo what it is, an UNidentified flying object.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2021
  10. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,077
    Everything which makes a noise is silent if far enough away

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  11. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    18,935
    The fact that they are unidentifiable means a mundane explanation cannot be ruled out.
     
  12. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    18,935
    Except this.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  13. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    16,608
    The fact that they are unidentified means mundane explanations have been ruled out. That's why we call them ufos and devote whole sections in bookstores to their nature and existence.
     
  14. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    18,935
    By some analyses, not by all analyses.

    There is no official authority on UFOs. No one can lay claim to having the last word on the status of an incident.

    You've got the tail wagging the dog there.

    There's whole sections of book stores devoted to homeopathy, crystal healing and God too. You gonna throw your hat into the God ring finally? No.
     
  15. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    16,608
    Tell the Air Force's Project Bluebook that. Better yet, call MUFON and break the news to them.

    Are you saying ufo's don't exist...that they are really ifos?
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2021
  16. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    18,935
    Do tell. Do you recognize them as authorities? That would be interesting.

    If they say 'x, y and z are not alien technology - they are simply secret testing', will you accept that without question?

    No, I'm not saying that at all. How does that even follow from talking about what's on bookshelves?


    But since you being it up, you appear to be using the terms 'UFO' and 'IFO' to reify phenomena. As if simply labeling a phenomenon 'UFO' causes reality to shift so that the phenomenon no longer has a real manifestation.

    They're just labels. Placeholders. Labels don't define the thing any more than calling myself Bob at a party turns me into Bob. Labels have no power over reality.

    And things that are unidentified can become identified. The labels are fluid.
     
  17. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    16,608
    I'm not reifying anything. I'm simply using a noun that refers to a particular kind of thing that many people have seen and taken photos of. If it bothers you that this thing actually exists and is not something mistaken for something else, that's your perogative. But as this thread has made more than abundantly clear, ufos exist and are evidenced in scores of well researched cases. And they are NOT identifiable as anything else, as the definition of ufo asserts.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2021
  18. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    18,935
    Well, it's not a particular kind of thing. They're all different things. Some people and some organizations lump them under one label or another, but that doesn't make them that thing.

    In other words, the term UFO is a subjective, ambiguous and fluid term.


    It hasn't. Quite the opposite.

    There is no authority on what can and cannot be identified.

    The military has their own criteria, but they do not own the word, its use or its applicability.

    There is no one definition of a UFO. And any definitions are still merely placeholders - bins with poorly-defined walls.

    The term does not imbue a given phenomena with the ability to be unidentifiable.
     
  19. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    16,608
    "The best scientifically accepted definition of a UFO is probably that provided by the late astronomer J. Allen Hynek, who said that the UFO is simply "the reported perception of an object or light seen in the sky or upon the land the appearance, trajectory, and general dynamic and luminescent behavior of which do not suggest a logical, conventional explanation and which is not only mystifying to the original percipients but remains unidentified after close scrutiny of all available evidence by persons who are technically capable of making a common sense identification, if one is possible." (The UFO Experience: A Scientific Inquiry by J. Allen Hynek, Henry Regnery, Chicago, 1972, p. 10.)

    http://paul.rutgers.edu/~cwm/MUFON/ufology.html
     
  20. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    18,935
    Sure, it's good. It's not authoritative.

    Nor is it definitive. Notice words like "suggests".

    Notice also that any reader, skeptic or enthusiast is perfectly free to ascribe a given phenomena to that label or not as they see fit.

    Thus, the purpose of this thread has not changed. Label it however you want, every purported claim of some aerial phenomena still needs sufficient evidence and provenance to qualify as a genuine other-than-human incident.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2021
  21. wegs Matter and Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    9,253
    What determines ''enough'' evidence, though?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1976_Tehran_UFO_incident

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenix_Lights

    Thousands of people all mistaken? Maybe, but these are two of the most "convincing" cases of (alien) UFO sightings, imo. (And, I'm not really an alien/spacecraft enthusiast)

    "Of course it is possible that UFOs really do contain aliens as many people believe, and the government is hushing it up. I wouldn't like to comment on that." — Stephen Hawking
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2021
    Magical Realist likes this.
  22. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    16,608
    Done. Repeatedly as being UFO's that display behavior and characteristics that are beyond any manmade craft and are not explainable as any mundane phenomenon. Like I said it's your perogative to dismiss all these thousands of sightings and photographs as imaginary things or as other things mistaken for something else. But anyone else willing to honestly look into this cannot but help suspect there is a real phenomenon going on here. And this thread lays out the clear evidence for that. You just have to be willing to look for yourself instead of taking someone else's word for it. Something skeptics never seem lacking in.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2021
  23. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    18,935
    Indeed. And yet with every single case mentioned in this thread, you have been, in fact, taking someone else's word for it, not seeing it for yourself.

    This is huge progress. You are taking your first steps toward rational skepticism: Don't believe everything strangers claim.
     
    foghorn likes this.

Share This Page