Putin's invasion of Ukraine

Discussion in 'World Events' started by Saint, Jan 20, 2022.

  1. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    8,466
    You may know the headlines:
    What you do not know is what was discussed beyond/behind
    the headlines.
     
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  3. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    And you do?
    You think that all US ambassadors are corrupt and all Russian propaganda is truth? C'mon man...

    LOOK AT THE PICTURES and tell me Putin (ex KGB) is a peaceful trustworthy guy and Russia is a peaceful country with no intentions of expanding its borders for "lebensraum" and Ukrainian oil.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2022
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  5. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    NO
    Absolutely not
     
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  7. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Then why are you pointing accusingly at NATO and the US ?
     
  8. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    counterpoint
     
  9. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    20,069
    Does the Ukraine have a right to defend itself with some help of its friends?
    Note that NATO is supplying defensive weaponry and abstains from direct confrontation.
     
  10. foghorn Valued Senior Member

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    1,453
    People are being arrested NOW in Russia for having different opinions than Putin's dictatorship, those people are not allowed''counterpoint'' arguments
     
  11. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    7,447
    those single man resoilles shoulder launched cannons look like they have potential.
    84mm carl gustov recoil-less canon
    giving small infantry teams almost artillery penetration

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!


    enabling hitting entrenched dug in positions inside buildings
     
  12. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    37,884
    Pretty sick excuse.

    The pretense that you don't really support the things you say does not change the fact that you say them. And you already know this.
     
    foghorn likes this.
  13. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    8,466
    Wake up genius.
    I never posted that I don't really support the things I say.
    Do you not tire of people abandoning critical thought and ceaselessly parroting mindless propaganda?
    Or
    Are you one of those people who really do not care how stupid the song is as long as everyone is singing the same damned song?
     
  14. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    20,069
    I have not yet heard anybody suggest to grant Ukraine membership in NATO and thereby have legal permission to enter the conflivt and make the claim that Russia is now at war with the entire NATO coalition.

    I should think that would give Putin pause trying to prolong this war in the hope the Western democracies would withdraw their support.

    The only thing Putin understands is power. The West should "double down" and actually become a threat to Russia if this conflict.

    If Putin's threat of nuclear destruction is a poker bluff and is not real, calling his bluff will end this war.
    If, OTOH, this is not a bluff, then what prevents Putin from using tactical nuclear weapons anyway?
    At what point should the world say: "no more"?
     
  15. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    37,884
    Yet your reason was, "counterpoint", not, "because it is true".

    It's one thing to weary of abandonment of critical thought, and all, but what never made any sense to me is what you or anyone else would expect to gain in responding by abandoning critical thought and ceaselessly parroting mindless "counterpoint". I've heard this kind of shit for years, dude; it's the same sort of excrement we get from people like James Lindsay and Jordan Peterson. If we all stop "abandoning critical thought and ceaslessly parroting mindless propaganda" and just go along with what they say, what we end up doing is putting women in their proverbial place, according to ceaseless repetition of mindless propaganda devoid of critical thought.¹ If I recall experience both verité and virtual during the time of the Internet, I have encountered many appeals to stop abandoning critical thought, and the extraordinary propensity of those pathways requiring dereliction of critical thought is sufficient to advise me against such direct appeals about "abandoning critical thought and ceaselessly parroting mindless propaganda". For reasons not entirely mysterious, such potsherd geniuses all too often find themselves leading back toward a greater danger than what they pretend to struggle against.

    An obvious point: That the colloquial chatter and buzz is frail, corrupted in its way, and sometimes even dangerous, is no good reason to "counterpoint" with something even more corrupted and dangerous.

    From the twitline: The loudest critiques against the mainline narrative condition are even worse than what they complain about. I actually think one former media CEO does it out of pathological petulance, that since he thinks other people are wrong, he's going to reciprocate. There are actually a few of those, and it's one thing if I disdain what goes on in the business of American news media, but there is no gain but loss in following those jokers through their looking glasses. I don't talk about them much at Sciforums because I wouldn't want to give those bastards the airtime, or even effort. It's like, sure, I'm not exactly a fan of that one centrist political hand with a nasty reputation and an NBC News punditry gig, but holy shit he can get that populist expatriate diva Congressional spouse and former media CEO worked up with a tweet, and over at FOX News they make a chyron out of it. The thing about the centrist with the nasty reputation, though, is that he is comprehensible. The other is so deeply entrenched in his counterscreech it's no longer worth trying to figure out what he's on about; he will either come around and start making sense, or not.

    More generally: If, for instance, the problem with Democrats is people like Kissinger, hiring a CIA boss, or Dick Cheney, makes no sense.

    Remember, the question of the same song is a pop culture appeal. Musicians sometimes point to the difference between music appreciation and musical knowledge or education. The science of pop music falters before the coincidence of the right song at the right moment.

    But think of "Guitar Trio"↱. The recording by Band of Susans runs over thirteen minutes, but the thing is the song is built entirely of one note. That's important to remember about five and a half minutes in. While what available online is compressed and therefore degraded, but it still works well enough to make the point. The question is, why are you listening to thirteen minutes of one note? There are, actually, reasons, and they are, actually, fascinating, but the reality is that's not why most people listen to music.

    But if we consider questions of critical thought, propaganda, and the appeal of pied pipers, every once in a while it might be important to to know a little about how the music works. Trading out for an even sketchier piper is not a good argument.

    ____________________

    Notes:

    ¹ It's like certain critiques of Hillary Clinton, several years ago; it was one thing to turn on the expectations and customs of centrism, but anyone could have told you at the time that the difference between being a good politician and behaving in an ugly, unbecoming way had to do with what we expect of women, and as soon as people accepted that she was out of the way as the potential first female president, all the stuff people didn't like about her political capability would stop being so ugly. The thing is, if it really was time to reject centrism, the perpetual haggling of being a Democratic voter, and ossified channels of compromise that shape institutional politics, that would have been one thing. But that's not what it was, and the critique turned out to be just another go 'round the same old stations of mindless mythopoeia lacking any functional critical thought.
     
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  16. foghorn Valued Senior Member

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    1,453
    So, your posts here are an example of your ''critical thought'' and your decision of what is propaganda. It's all me with you.

    Is there another musical interval coming up??
     
  17. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    Yeh
    OK
     
  18. foghorn Valued Senior Member

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    1,453
    So, your posts here are an example of your ''critical thought'' and your decision of what is propaganda. It's all me with you.
     
  19. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    and the far right defined globalism as a centrist communist plot and defined it as the enemy as soon as the game changed and Hillary was no longer worthy of the main headlines.
    they shifted their hate from what they had been told to hate.

    with donald trump standing at the front conducting like he did in the capital riot directing rioters
     
  20. arfa brane call me arf Valued Senior Member

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    7,832
    We don't need no education
    We don't need no thought control
     
  21. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    8,466
     
  22. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    See, that's hilarious.
     
  23. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    His version of "Uh . . . what I meant was . . . see, what's really important is . . . hey! Look at this! Something shiny!"
     

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