On Conservatives and Republicans

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Tiassa, Mar 1, 2023.

  1. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    What It Comes To

    Rep. Jamie Raskin (D-MD08)↱ makes a brief semantic point:

    … because the Gentlelady was making a grammatical error that I heard some of her colleagues make, before; I believe she referred to a "'Democrat' solution". I heard another member talk about a "'Democrat' member" and a "'Democrat' plan". I just wanted to educate our distinguished colleagues, that "Democrat" is the noun; when you use it as an adjective, you say the "Democratic" member, or the "Democratic" solution, or "Democratic" plan, and so I assume it's a good-faith grammatical error the first few times, but after people are corrected several times, and they continue to say it, it seems like it's an act of incivility, as if every time we mentioned the other party, it just came out with a kind of speech impediment like, oh, the Banana Republican Party. As if we were to say that every time we mentioned the Banana Republican member, or the Banana Republican plan, or the Banana Republican Conference.

    My version is actually savage, the publican Party. Or perhaps I try too hard, compared to the "Repubican" juvenilia just hanging there like a pouting opportunity. In any case, like the Distinguished Gentleman from Maryland Eight explained, "But we don't do that." And that part really shouldn't need to be said.

    Still, though, toss a coin: Heads, conservatives are just that ignorant. Tails, conservatives are just that petty. Oh, right, the latter does not preclude the former.

    Either way, yeah, we kind of knew, already.

    Seriously, they've been at it for years; we believe them.

    And, yes, pretty much anyone can comprehend the desperate incination to pretend conservatives have nothing to do with the GOP Party¹ in the time of Trump², but the living experience just disagrees.
    ____________________

    Notes:

    ¹ A local joke from over a decade ago, since we're having fun with party names. Note for the record, that was how Republicans wanted it. (Hint: That's why it's funny.)

    ² e.g., the Buckley line; see #3702939↗

    An interesting contrast in recent years is the idea that William F. Buckley Jr. would somehow be distressed by what conservatism has become, but if we consider what the proposition means, the actual point that would trouble him is the lack of subtlety.

    —which came up a few times over a period of weeks, last year; see also #3703059↗, 3703130↗; a variation is included in #3703854↗.​

    @Acyn. "Raskin to Boebert: Democrat is the noun. When you use it as an adjective, you say Democratic.. As if every time we mentioned the other party it just came out with a kind of political speech impediment like, oh, the Banana Republican Party." Twitter. 28 February 2023. Twitter.com. 28 February 2023. https://bit.ly/3kIYNQW
     
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  3. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    Does Grammarly have something against a thesis?

    Conservatives live in Canada, not Republicans. There is no Republican, GOP, Trump, in Canada.

    (We also use the metric system -Dis so owned

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  5. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    In the United States, the parties are generally asserted to represent some sort of liberal/conservative divide, and while the Democratic Party has never really been so liberal, conservatives separate themselves from the Republican Party for one of two reasons, either the party is run by "rinos" who are too liberal to be properly conservative, or the party has gone so far right that some people start insisting that conservatism is a separate thing from the Republican Party¹. That is to say, the GOP that has appealed to conservatism and conservatives for generations: fiscal conservatives, social conservatives, Christian conservatives, conservative values, &c.

    Anyway, Canadian conservatives are their own question. Not all conservatives are American Republicans, but, it's curious watching people try to separate American conservatism from what it wants, seeks, and accomplishes. Meanwhile, yeah, the Canadian version is something special in its own right.
    ____________________

    Notes:

    ¹ In our community, see, Seattle↗, "Nothing currently going on with Republicans and Trump has anything to do with Conservatism"; Billvon↗, "I think you are conflating modern republicans with conservatives", and also↗, "I think nowadays you really have to separate out three different groups - republicans, conservatives and Trump supporters. There is getting to be less and less overlap between them." Even Parmalee↗ will acknowledge the basic pretense, and Origin↗ worries about "painting ALL conservatives with too wide of a brush". Like I said↑, it came up a few times, last year. If I look back to over a decade ago↗ the question whether we were really supposed to take an argument seriously was answered tacitly↗, i.e., we can only conlcude, per that response, that yes, we were to take the argument seriously.
     
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  7. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    We're number one!

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  8. geordief Valued Senior Member

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    You are in pop music (Cohen,Mitchel ,Young etc etc)
     
  9. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    Is pop music right or wrong?

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  10. geordief Valued Senior Member

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    Sorry ,doesn't compute. Joni Mitchel was right though.They did pave paradise.
     
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  11. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    William F. Buckley Jr. said “liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views”.
     
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  12. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    Compared to the idea that William F. Buckley Jr. would somehow be distressed by what conservatism has become, the actual point that would trouble him is the lack of subtlety.¹

    It's like the difference between beliefs and behaviors. Liberals aren't shocked and offended to discover that there are other views; in fact, Buckley's claim makes no sense, given how compared to his traditionalist conservative, liberalism was inherently "other views".

    But Buckley's sort of conservatism was supposed to be smart enough to discern the difference between "views" and behavior. Yes, we hear those other views, and no, they cannot have what they want, because those views are functionally problematic. It's kind of like how conservatives are so often shocked and offended to discover that equality means equality.

    Even now, they think they're being oppressed and silenced if they're not allowed to silence and oppress others.

    I suppose the easiest way to put it is that it's not the views that are shocking or offensive, but the idea that we are supposed to take them seriously.
    ____________________

    Notes:

    ¹ A reminder↗, since you missed it↗ last time.​
     
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  13. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    The Turning Burn

    So, Aubrey Savela is a field representative for Turning Point Action, a right-wing advocacy group. Recently, she lashed out at Maricopa Coutny Recorder Stephen Richer, posting a photo↱ of two ballots to X, and declaring:

    Maricopa county at its finest...

    My first time ever voting in a presidential election and I received not one but two mail-in ballots

    Thank you @stephen_richer

    For those who need the recap: Ms. Savela is alleging some manner of irregularity in Maricopa County elections.

    Recorder Stephen Richer↱ replied:

    Hi Aubrey!

    Thanks for reaching out.

    You changed your voter registration on the last day of voter registration (Feb. 20) from your Chandler address to your new Tempe address.

    Because early ballots must go out on Feb. 21, your Chandler ballot was already set to go out, and so it did.

    Then we sent out a new ballot to your Tempe address when we processed your voter registration modification.

    That's why you had to redact out different lengths in the address (because they were sent to different addresses).

    You'll also notice that one of the packet codes ends in "01" (the one to your old address) and one ends in "02" (the one sent to your new address). As soon as the "02" one goes out, the "01" packet is dead. Meaning even if you sent it back, it wouldn't proceed to signature verification, and it wouldn't be opened. That's how we prevent people from voting twice.

    So just use the one with your new address ending in "02" -- that's the only one that will work.

    Hope this helps! Have a great night! Happy voting!

    (For the record, nobody said, "'Bye, Felicia!" but plenty reported a murder.)
     
  14. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    One Moment in Time

    This is where we're at:

    • Lauren Boebert's adult son has been arrested for a string of break-ins stealing credit cards, in a place called Rifle, Colorado, and is alleged to have made a sex tape with his underage partner in crime.​

    The thing is, if you're not up to date on the Republican member of Congress from Colorado Three, now carpetbagging Colorado Four in hopes of succeeding the rape advocate who is retiring this year, it's probably hard to grasp the macabre. The family-values conservative was caught up in an absurd, public lewdness adultery scandal, which is both funny and unsurprising enough, but Boebert has also previously faced questions about, and even denied, the time her husband went to jail for exposing himself to women at a bowling alley, including at least one who was underage. Moreover, as her popularity wanes in her home district, she hopes to succeed in a new one, where she is running in fifth place among Republicans aiming to replace the retiring rape advocate, Rep. Ken Buck.

    And, sure, that reads like a ridiculous paragraph, but that's the point: Those who are generally up to date think it's just as ridiculous, even though it's true.
     
  15. Sarkus Hippomonstrosesquippedalo phobe Valued Senior Member

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    What a shame that a current MAGA mouthpiece looks unlikely to get reelected. I saw that she was being hauled over the coals for switching district, and struggling for support, but not the rest of it.

    In one town meeting, or whatever they're called when they have all the Republican candidates on stage to answer questions, they were asked who still thought the 2020 election was stolen. 2 of the 9 raised their hands... and MAGA Boebert was probably the most vociferous of the two.

    Unfortunately she isn't/wasn't the worst, with a certain Marjorie Taylor Greene still there. And of course Mike Johnson. But, it looks to be a start.
     
  16. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    GOP = Grand Old Party
    so GOP Party = Grand Old Party Party

    Welcome to the department of redundancy department.

    (red white and blue balloons and confetti and confetti and balloons)
    (It don't gotta make sense as long as it's a party?)
     
  17. Sarkus Hippomonstrosesquippedalo phobe Valued Senior Member

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    Yes, it's on quite a few sites as an example of a rather common redundancy. The earliest example of it I can find via a quick Google was Dino Rossi using "GOP Party" as the identifier of the party he represented on the ballot for Washington Governor back in 2008 or so. I'm assuming that something like this is what Tiassa was referring to in his note about it.
     
  18. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    There's a mention of it around here, ca. 2009↑, when former local news anchor Susan Hutchison ran for County Executive; a few years later, as she ascended to state Republican Chair, the headline would note she described herself as nonpartisan, and reminded that she downplayed her ties to the Republican Party in the '09 race. But, yeah, for a while, Republicans didn't want to be seen as Republicans.
     

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