i love christianity...

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by supernova_smash, Apr 17, 2002.

  1. supernova_smash Registered Senior Member

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    I go to a Catholic school (and no, I've never been molested). Recently one of my teachers read a prayer with this line in it:

    "We pray for the end of all things that kill life: Hunger, poverty, oppression, individualism , et cetera..."

    Now why on Earth (MY god) would we pray for the death of individuality? I think this is going a bit far huh? The thing I love about Christians is that they usually make the atheists job easier by constantly making themselves look like fools. Further example. Our teacher got philosophical one class and tried to tell us how the Holy Spirit (HS) is in everything. She said:

    "Everywhere, everything is alive with the spirit, even in things like rocks. Scientists are now breaking them up and noticing that at a very, very tiny level, they seem to quiver back and forth. The only thing that can explain this is the Holy Spirit. The spirit is in the rocks and its causing them to shake with God."

    Well she's convinced me that the atomic theory is incorrect.

    Today was even funnier. We talked about Oscar Romero (an El Salvadoran bishop) and the Commies. She said that communism was bad because it revolved around the principal of killing civilians. She said it was communism doctrine to take away people's Right to Religion and Freedom of Speech. She said communism was evil and we had to thank the HS for giving Oscar Romero the courage to fight back. Now, i'm thinking the Holy Spirit didn't do it alone. From what I know, Romero was pretty heavily influenced by the US, who apparently hates communism. Then the teacher pointed at a class mate of mine and in a shaky voice, while shakily waving her finger, said:

    "If the Communists hear you speaking out against them, they will take you to the garbage dump and shoot you."

    Now that just made my day. The look on her face was pure terror, as if she was condemned to hell. Priceless.

    What I'm getting at here is that IGNORANCE seems to be a personal trait of most X-tians, at least ones I've met. Could it be that the very basis of their faith is founded on this quality?

    And I realize my teacher is a fanatic. I can just picture Osama saying "I think you need to tone it down just a little, you're getting carried away."
     
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  3. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    Good times, good times, good times ....

    Sounds like morning prayers & petitions to me, Supernova. Wow, that one brings back a few memories. I always liked the idea that some student was supposed to read the prayers each morning; maybe it's not like that at your school, but we even had a "petitions box", I think, where students wrote down who or what they would like prayed for, and somebody had to read those over the PA. Maybe the priests actually read the prayers; I don't remember. It could be that the student president had to read the sports scores. But I always wondered about that morning petition; it was often filled with a fair number of abstract good wishes for the starving children here and there, and we did have one student who was known for poring through newspapers and scribbling notes from the evening news and so forth to drop in the box the next day. Who needs CNN? If there was a disaster, K would have let you all know in morning prayers.

    I can't say that they ever went after individualism so directly, but one thing to propose: I never found my instructors particularly intelligent, even about the things they were supposed to teach. It could have been much worse, and I have to admit that at a Jesuit school filled with lay spiritualists, the sharpest tacks included the nutty psych/history teacher and the Franciscan nun who taught theology. In that sense, one of the shortcomings of the Jesuit experience was that the more religious you were, the more demanding you were in your use of words. Thus, if, say, Father Fred dared use the word "individualism", he would not be describing the state that you or I recognize, but a doctrinal, catechismal idea such as you might find in the Catholic Encyclopedia and applying the word as if it described as centralized, defined, codified, and consciously-identified body as Catholicism. Thus, we might find the drunken fool (and he was constantly intoxicated) rambling on about individualism and never know that what he was talking about was an imagined legion of lock-stepping, dogmatic individualists. (Yes, you can chuckle at that ....)

    Really, that's how silly it got. I didn't pay attention to the Central American situation when I was in Catholic school because of the people teaching it to me. My history teacher was, I believe, forbidden from broaching the subject since he was as avant garde as you could get and not be fired. But my theology teacher for a year was always big on things like that. But he liked to do it with movies, which seems fun enough. But it was amazing; it turned out that I, the complete infidel, was the only person of the thirty of us in the room who had seen the film The Mission. I liked the idea of showing the film and I was, momentarily at least, intrigued at how my faithful classmates would react to the film. Of course, we started the class period with him spoiling the end, and spent the rest of Day One listening to him go point-by-point through the story and telling us how to feel and react and what to think.

    No, I don't recall that they ever dug in against individualism specifically, but they were definitely anti-individual.

    The rest of it ... I've thought about writing the movie, but being that truth is stranger than fiction, I doubt the audience would buy it. It's far too strange.

    Have some fun, though. Look in the school library. Do they have Malleus Maleficarum? Great book. Nothing to do with individualism, but you'll scare the hell out of 'em until they realize that you're talking about a Catholic book.

    And, well, I'm always a fan of screwing with them like that:

    "Where did you hear that?"
    Library
    "What library?"
    Um ... the one right over there? Our library ...

    thanx for the memories,
    Tiassa

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  5. LIGHTBEING Registered Senior Member

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    That's pretty funny.

    I can't imagine going to a Catholic school. In one sense it was probably torture, but in another sense it probably taught you alot about the Catholic environment and you also probably learned alot about yourself.....as an Individual.

    I agree with you two. Ignorance almost seems like a Christian practice. To accept something just becuase it is written is pretty damn ignorant to me. To not question the Bible and your elders, well that is just $%!$%% stupid!!!!!!

    I don't really know how it is in a Catholic school. I went to a public school(horray for me). But from what you and others have told me, the professors seem to be lacking some basic teaching skills.

    I mean, do they relate or try to relate everything to Jesus and Christianity. Like when they teach you how to write out a check do they remind you to tithe. Or when they teach you how to solve a Math problem do they thank Jesus for giving them the ability to do so. Maybe these teachers aren't so smart because they try their hardest to incorporate Jesus in Math 101????

    Maybe it has something to do with their Starting Salary. I live in NJ and around here teachers in Public Schools start somewhere around $35,000 to $40,000 a year(correct me if I'm wrong) and a good friend of my wife just started at a Christian School and she is making around $20,000. Could it be that these people really aren't qualified?????
     
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  7. supernova_smash Registered Senior Member

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    its a great experience.

    tiassa- i'll look for that book, yet with dull hope, as much of our library has a very selective way of choosing books to make available to us

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    .

    Actually I am glad I had the opportunity to go to a Catholic school and be raised in a Catholic home. I now have a valid argument against them. First order of business however, is to point out an error in my original post. I did some research on Oscar Romero and it turns out that this is the [simplified] story:

    - Extreme right-wing political group [almost Fascim] hold power in El Salvador during the late '70s. Their regime is characterized by massacre, torture etc.

    - Communists are a minority. Since this is in the time of the Cold War, Cuba decides to support the communist movement. This angers the US who by God can't allow communism any stronger of a foothold, so THE US FULLY BACKS THE MILITARY DICTATORSHIP IN EL SALVADOR TO KEEP THE COMMIES OUT. They keep on with the child slayings, etc.

    - Bishop Romero, who was in favor of neither government as far as we can tell [he was probably socialist, yes, there is such thing as a catholic socialist]. He begins to speak out against the atrocity that the El Salvadoran/US government are responsible for.

    - The current pope [names fail me] decides that "Hey, we can't have a bishop doing this, religious persons do not engage in political activism." So the Catholic Church boots him out.

    - Well, now that Romero is [technically] not a preist, the US/El Salvadoran gov. has no problem with killing him to shut him up. He is assasinated while conducting a Catholic Mass.

    That's the skinny of it. I suppose I'm no better than my Religion teacher, seeing as I was wrong also originally.

    Lightbeing;

    It's weird to see how the Catholic faith is being integrated into the school curriculum without hardly being detected. For example, the other day in biology we were discussing embryonic development. The teacher said "After 9 weeks, the embryo is considered a fetus, and an abortion after this point in time would be murder..." and continues as if what she had just said was undisputed fact. A few of us raised eyebrows on that [no one challenged it however], but most scribbled it into their little notebooks word for word and undoubtedly studied that "fact" for the exam. I should point out that not all classes are like that. Thankfully, my Social and English teacher choose to remain quite objective. It really is a matter of personality/gullibility. Being in a Catholic school doesn't mean every teacher babbles about Catholosism, it just means that if they do, they won't go to jail because of it.
     
  8. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    37,882
    And I'll beat this name around some

    Sometimes I have no problem dropping names, especially when it's such a story. Supernova, your response to Lightbeing, and LB's mention about Jesus and Math 101 popped one into my head.

    The following story was related to me by Marlys Johnson, my geometry/logic teacher in high school:

    • Apparently Marlys' child was born with a cleft palate. For any who are unfamiliar, this is a structural birth defect in which the roof of the mouth is not closed properly. As a result, young children have a habit of getting some interesting things stuck in their sinus passages. Well, more interesting than usual when a cleft palate is involved. As it was explained to us, in this testimonial of God's grace (as part of our geometry lesson?) the doctors were unwilling to perform corrective surgery until the child was at least a term of months older.

    Another problem cleft palate apparently causes is respiratory difficulty. The child, apparently, had to be bedded in a specific way; too upright would keep the child awake, and too flat would cause the child to stop breathing.

    And Marlys, being a loving parent with the usual maternal instincts, awoke at any irregularity in the sound of the child's breathing (apparently a snoring sound as result of the cleft palate). After many nights, of course, the task of getting up frightened, checking on the baby, waking the baby, and then calming the baby back to sleep, began to wear on her. It became harder and harder for Marlys to function through each day.

    So one night, exhausted and in need of sleep, Marlys says she threw her hands up, told God it was his choice, put the baby to sleep on its back and shut the baby's bedroom door so as to drown out the sound of the baby's breathing so that she could sleep well and rested. If the baby died, it would be God's will. Of course, the baby didn't die, thus reinforcing her faith.

    This, of course, was Geometry/Logic class.

    Jesus 101 in math class.

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    thanx,
    Tiassa

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    (PS--Malleus Maleficarum is written by Kramer and Sprenger, I believe they were Dominicans, and I believe it was circa 14th century. I'll look it up. "The Hammer", as it's known, is a thoroughly Catholic document in all its gory glory.)
     
  9. Adam §Þ@ç€ MØnk€¥ Registered Senior Member

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  10. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    In the words of Jennyanydots ...

    Thank y'm'dear.

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    thanx,
    Tiassa

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  11. SpyFox_the_KMeson Doctorate of Yiffology Registered Senior Member

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    Y I F F

    You know, once, back when my family went to church, my Sunday school teacher, a young female idealist just out of college, was telling us how great heaven is. I asked her, "If heaven is so great, why don't we just stop using medicine to prolong life? After all, isn't it a good place to be?" The Sunday school teacher never listened to me again.
     
  12. TruthSeeker Fancy Virtual Reality Monkey Valued Senior Member

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    15,162
    supernova_smash,

    Love your enemies.

    How is that ignorant?

    Love,
    Nelson
     
  13. Xev Registered Senior Member

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    10,943
    Well, if followed, it would get you killed....

    But in any case, that is hardly a central tenent of Christianity.
     
  14. TruthSeeker Fancy Virtual Reality Monkey Valued Senior Member

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    I see that...

    You never followed it!

    If you had followed, you would have discovered that you don't get killed. The opposite happens,

    you become REALLY Loved!!

    It is, eventhough it's not so usual to be followed...

    Love,
    Nelson
     
  15. Xev Registered Senior Member

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    10,943
    Astute observation.

    Egad! Even worse!

    It isn't. Jesus made many references to killing his enemies and torturing them forever.....
     
  16. Adam §Þ@ç€ MØnk€¥ Registered Senior Member

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    7,415
    He did? I'd like to read those, if you have them handy to cut and paste.
     
  17. Xev Registered Senior Member

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    10,943
    Adam: Only if you aknowledge my everlasting virtue and eternal superiority....

    Matthew
    13:41
    The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
    13:42
    And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

    25:45
    Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

    25:46
    And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

    Mark 16:16

    Luke 3:16
    John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:

    3:17
    Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and will gather the wheat into his garner; but the chaff he will burn with fire unquenchable.

    19:26
    For I say unto you, That unto every one which hath shall be given; and from him that hath not, even that he hath shall be taken away from him.
    19:27
    But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

    John 3:36
    He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

    There's like, way lots more, but I'm kinda busy.

    www.skepticsannotatedbible.com has more
     
  18. Adam §Þ@ç€ MØnk€¥ Registered Senior Member

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    How about: nup!
     
  19. TruthSeeker Fancy Virtual Reality Monkey Valued Senior Member

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    Xev,

    In ancient Religions there are many baptisms. One of them is the Baptism of Fire.

    How do you think is this baptism? You throw yourself into the fire? No.... fire here means energy, life...

    The same in those scriptures. Interpretation is Essencial in Religion, Philosophy and even in the News on TV.

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    Love,
    Nelson
     
  20. Tinker683 Registered Senior Member

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    You'll pardon my cynicism Nelson, when I tell you that it sounds like your twisting the words to fit your version of whats right and wrong.

    Besides, you ignored the others. What say you for them?

    *edit* I read over your statements Nelson, and I saw something which I felt I had to point out.

    Could you please define " Interpretation " ?. Because the way you wrote it, it sounded almost as if you were implying that the nature of religon is subjective...

    Which, of course, proves athiesm correct. Something that is subjective CAN NOT be consider an absolute truth. Why? Because the subjective nature of such a statement undermines the very defintion of truth.

    Care to comment?
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2002
  21. TruthSeeker Fancy Virtual Reality Monkey Valued Senior Member

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    15,162
    Tinker683,

    Interpretation is when you read the hidden meaning of the word instead of the common meaning. You have to interpretate metaphors, for example. Those tools, like metaphors, are used when words are not enough to give a complete view in a subject...

    Love,
    Nelson
     
  22. Tinker683 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    98
    Huh? " Hidden " meaning? Don't you think that your answer is a tad circular? I mean, seriously Nelson, whats the " hidden " meaning? And how do you know IF THERE IS a hidden meaning?

    And you still haven't addressed the other questionable Bible quotes....
     
  23. TruthSeeker Fancy Virtual Reality Monkey Valued Senior Member

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    15,162
    Tinker683,

    Because it's symbolic... mostly...

    Did it already many times... in many of my posts...
    You are not the first one to intepret literally those kind of thing...

    Love,
    Nelson
     

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