Judas and Jesus... allies?

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by Esoteric, Apr 6, 2006.

  1. Esoteric Tragic Hero Registered Senior Member

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    Text might be hidden 'Gospel of Judas'

    http://www.cnn.com/2006/TECH/science/04/06/gospel.judas.ap/index.html
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2006
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  3. Medicine*Woman Jesus: Mythstory--Not History! Valued Senior Member

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  5. Trilairian Registered Senior Member

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    Since it dates to the third century it can hardly be considered to have been written by Judas. It is either a third centurt hoax or merely a copy and either way can no more itself be taken as evidence for an actual historical Jesus than any of the other gospels for which the earliest texts we have were also written to late to be considered actual evidence for an actual historical Jesus.
     
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  7. Clockwood You Forgot Poland Registered Senior Member

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    Either way, it holds at least as much weight as any given part of the new testament.
     
  8. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    I've been saying that for years. Jesus could not have picked a disloyal disciple.
     
  9. c7ityi_ Registered Senior Member

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    it's not just cosmological. although man is a microcosm of the universe.

    did you know that judas and jesus is associated with the same astrological sign, except judas is the lower form, the scorpion, while jesus is the higher form, the eagle. serpent turns into a rod. scorpion turns into an eagle. lifeforce turns into wisdom.
     
  10. OliverJ Banned Banned

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    I turn into a Christian one day a year. Christmas.
     
  11. Provita Provita Registered Senior Member

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    Just wondering... what else does the Gospel of Judas say?
     
  12. daktaklakpak God is irrelevant! Registered Senior Member

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    Judas was doing god's bidding. He carries the bad name but it was still god's will.
     
  13. Provita Provita Registered Senior Member

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    Alright, I understand that (but would that really "shake the foundation" of Christianity? sure it would change a few things... and the whole Passion movie would be slightly wrong

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

    ) but does it say anything else? It cant just be a page long lol... does the rest generally agree with the other Gospels? does it add stories? leave out stories?
     
  14. Medicine*Woman Jesus: Mythstory--Not History! Valued Senior Member

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    *************
    M*W: For god's sake, Provita. It's been on CNN for two days now. You can access it there just like the rest of us did.
     
  15. Medicine*Woman Jesus: Mythstory--Not History! Valued Senior Member

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    M*W: Get off your lazy ass, Provita, and look it up yourself! Do some research. I can already see that it's going to be a fabrication and maybe a hoax. It's dated to 300s AD, when the Romans were rife in their biblical forgeries.
     
  16. Provita Provita Registered Senior Member

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    Researched it for an hour already before i asked Medicine Woman, and none said anything except for what you all have said... It tells the story of Judas as not being a betrayer but only following Jesus's command... etc. etc. ... but I want to know what ELSE does it contain... it cannot just contain that, or else its a 1-5 page gospel... and I was wondering if anyone knew of any websites that have published more info on it... sorry for asking, and sorry for being a "lazy ass" for wanting to know more about something that i couldnt find...

    Another example of mindless insults...
     
  17. Mythbuster Mushroomed Registered Senior Member

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    While I don't take any gospels to be accurate representations of history, such a manuscript would it seems make explicit what was already implicit in the story: that Judas was a necessary role rather than a traitor or villain.

    If Jesus had to die on the cross after being betrayed, it only makes sense that somebody would have to betray him. The Bible, in proposing the omniscience of its god and accepting as valid the notion of prophecy, implicitly endorses predeterminism in which case Judas could not possibly have been a traitor/villain as we understand those terms today.
     
  18. Mythbuster Mushroomed Registered Senior Member

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    A high likelihood of fakery.
     
  19. Clockwood You Forgot Poland Registered Senior Member

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    Of course, I would say the same about the rest of the bible too.
     
  20. invert_nexus Ze do caixao Valued Senior Member

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  21. Paraclete Banned Banned

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    In the comments in this link , it is said that the gospel of Judas teaches us
    that this world and nature is created by a lower evil deity, and that there is a higher good deity. Also that Judas helped the soul of Jesus to escape the human flesh, so the soul could go to the reign of the good deity; so Judas was actually helping Jesus by having his body killed, so the soul could escape this world, that is created by an evil deity.

    I have just finished reading a lot of old scriptures from the 12.th , 13th and 14.th century about the religions of the Cathars - the cathars have exactly these 2 cornerstones in their religion :
    1) an evil God that created this world and a higher good God that reigns over paradise.
    2) Your soul is inside a body (the body belongs to this world) and if you live and die in the right way , your soul will be free to enter the paradise of the higher good God. It is a good thing to finally die and let the soul escape the world of the evil deity..
    I am sitting here with a feeling that the cathar religion could originate from
    the gospel of Judas.


    This gospel of Judas has been radiocarbondated to year 280 , but the text was certainly known by Ireneus from Lyon in year 180 , and might very well be from the first century . Lyon is by the way not far from the areas of the cathars in southern france.

    Then again the impact of this gospel might not be very big today - the church of today will never accept the duality of Gods , though they have stopped burning heretics on the stake.....
     
  22. Non-Logical-Idea-Guy Fat people can't smile. Registered Senior Member

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    The Idea is is that Judas was asked by Jesus (against his will) to betray hi, I can half believe this story however that would mean the other gospels lied so its about 29v1 on judas being evil or not
     

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