Hey Israel, You Missed One!!

Speaking of swallowing media propaganda: that article was more "he-said she-said". (Or would that be "She-Said"?

Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

)

The Israelis say that they have intel on weapons and whatnot; an ex-analyst says it's a "classic" bombing campaign.

Yet, casualties are quite light for the number of sorties and bombs. Do you think, perhaps, that the Israelis couldn't simply bomb indiscriminately, or strike only civilian neighbourhoods, or napalm Lebanon?

Think about it Sam, and save on the propaganda.

 

Log in or Sign up to hide all adverts.

Yes but then they already have the human rights and amnesty international on their backs due to previous such incursions and human rights violations. After all, there are higher expectations from a sovereign state than from a terrorist group, wouldn't you say?

Though looking at the US and Israel, the distinctions seem pretty blurred to me.

 

Log in or Sign up to hide all adverts.

Bombing of Lebanon

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCDUrRrHi4g&search=lebanon bombs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7q2GILeRRQ&search=lebanon bombs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxwYA_ZSU0w&search=lebanon bombs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VzmGfaCWO4&search=lebanon bombs

 

Log in or Sign up to hide all adverts.

OK, so now I'm lost: did the Israelis engage in a classical "bomb-them-flat" campaign or not? About 600 civilians have been killed so far, no idea how many terrorists, with bombing concentrated in specific areas rather than indiscriminately all over civilian zones, and without the real range of civilian casualties it would be easily possible to generate. First you seem to opine that they are, then you imply that they can't since AI is all over them. So which is it?

When fighting terrorists that can flee across borders, what do you expect? And - under the terms of the withdrawal treaty - Hezbollah is not supposed to have rockets. I don't think bombing was the best idea, but then again Hezbollah is going to carry on being Hezbollah.

 

First of all, 600 civilians is the reported figure, no one knows if and how many people are under the rubble.

And the reason they are not all out carpet bombing is because they know how far they can go. After all they are experts at this

http://www.palestinehistory.com/massacre.htm
edit: just realised the list does not give figures
http://www.soundofegypt.com/palestinian/adult/massacres.htm
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,19784064-2,00.html

The only reason that the problem has been exacerbated to such a degree and not yet been resolved is because the history of Israels aggression in the region has been overlooked and their incursions supported by the US.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/UN/usvetoes.html

 

Experts at massacre? I think they might positively blush from all the compliments you give them. Look - if you think they're massacring Lebanese civilians, then say so. If you don't, then say so. Don't first say they are and then when you're caught out claim that "well, they know they're being watched". It smacks of the worst kind of Arab conspiracy theories. Next you'll be telling us they harvest Palestinian children's eyes.

I wouldn't put too much stock in the links you posted - the Arab nations around Israel did far, far worse for a long time. And in the second, note that every single Israeli action occurs in response to something. Are we meant to think then that the Israelis are the new Nazis? Ah - my apologies. Of course we are.

Israeli aggression? I'm sorry - were they the ones firing rockets and kidnapping soldiers? Every event in the list on your links illustrated that the Israelis were always reacting to terrorist aggression.

However, since you posted a link from the Jewish Virtual Library, how about this one?:

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/talking/47_Hizballah.html

Or this one?:

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/talking/48_Disinformation.html

 

Don't be silly. But their excessive response hardly endears them to the Arabs and their other neighbors especially when they use the US to further their efforts. Don't you think the problem could have been resolved better without violence?

What progress has this way of retaliation given them? Or their neighbors?

And you don't think their reaction was a bit too much?

Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

And what was the reason for the Hezbollah being formed in the first place (and I don't care for their methods either)

As for the disinformation, yeah sure, everyone knows how fair the US media is.
Which is why all the Americans are so well informed about the world

Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

 

Don't you be silly - you said they were experts at massacre. And no, I don't think the "problem" of the abductions could have been resolved without violence, although I think the strikes were not the best way.

What progress have the attacks given them, or their neighbours? Your solution, then, is that the Israelis should have merely accepted this aggression? That seems just sliiiightly unreasonable.

Have you been reading my posts or not?

Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

My position is quite clear. Are you now referring to the responses to the past attacks, or to the present ones?

The destruction of Israel. Makes it a bit hard to reason with them, I imagine.

I don't recall mentioning disinformation, but the US media is fairer by far than al-Jazeera, which only disinforms in only one way. Meanwhile, the Americans have CNN, Fox News and the New York Times with which to be disinformed, from the right and the left, and everywhere in between.

Sort of puts perspective on the whole disinformation thing, doesn't it? I wonder, for instance, just how well informed the average resident of Syria, Jordan and Pakistan is on world affairs, and from where they get their news?

 

Hey I never claimed to be an expert in ALL things.
Would have made a very poor military strategist no doubt.

So what would have been a better way?

Just reminding you (hence the rolled eyes)

So the alternative is to bomb everybody?

It was the link you gave me to look up.

So you think Americans are well-informed then?

Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

I would imagine having refugees moving in every few years would take care of that, don't you?

PS didn't you check out the mosaic link I gave you?
Its a pretty good roundup of the ME news, all around

 

Regrettably, there probably wasn't. I don't say that everybody should be bombed, of course.

 

ok, so we all agree that mainstream news is bullshit everywhere in the world.

next topic?

 

Sam then why do most of your questions seem to reflect a point of view that the Hezbullah are the innocent one's in this situations?

 

Logic? You want to use logic? Okay, what you responded to:

"Thats only because their weapons suck. 1500 rockets and only 19 civilians...I guess Iran needs to ship them some new goods. With 1500 rockets its obvious they are TRYING to kill Civilians. Realisticly Hezbollah would kill ever single Isreali if given the chance." - Crazy151Drinker

Hezbollah has shot 1500 rockets and only 19 killed civilians? How in the world does that transfer to "obviously they are trying to kill civilians" all because 1500 rockets have been fired when only 19 have died in that many missle attacks? If they were really trying to kill civilians, with 1500 missle strikes, many more civilians than a mere 19 would die from those.

That averages out to 78 or so rockets all to kill one civilian. Surely even sucky weapons would be better than that. 78 rockets all to kill one civilian.. yeah, uh huh.. Wanna know how many bombs it took to kill one Lebanese civilian? A lot less than 78 because their death roll is over 600. Using Hezbollah's average of 78 rockets to kill one civilian, that would mean Israel would have to have fired 46,800 rockets/bombs to be as safe as Hezbollah from minimizing civilian losses to reach that 600.

Heh, I highly doubt that many were dropped or fired. So either it means Israel's rockets/bombs suck more than Hezbollah's to wind up landing on that many civilians, or it means they're obviously trying to kill civilians due to having a higher success rate at hitting civilians with less amount of rockets/bombs.

Hey, 2 Israeli servicemen are worth a lot more than the over 800,000+ people involved in this war. Oh, and those two soldier's lives are also worth a lot more than the few dozers of Israeli soldiers killed so far too.

Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

They have to be, don't they? Afterall, Hezbollah is defending their country from the Israeli invasion. If we don't support our troops or anyone else that defends this country, we're called unpatriotic. Obviously we have to be patriotic. So why can't the same apply to Lebanon?

Uh, you know, that would be nice, but uh, Israel did a thing called bombing their airport to kingdom kom, destoyed their power stations, and blew up numerous bridges that led out of many places during their first strikes when those rockets came to, uh, "warm them".

Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

How does that support his point? Uh, well if almost all Israeli are or were in the military due to the draft they have and can be called up at any time, then there aren't any civilian targets except children. So basically, Hezbollah has killed hardly any civilians since the only non-military personnel that are civilians are children, yet Israel has killed many thousands of civilians from other countries. Now who's the bigger terrorist?

Nope, because there's a thing called "world opinion". All that means is that Israel can still intentionally target civilians, just not press their luck going too far. They're riding that thin line perfectly so far. They know just how many civilians to kill before easing up and then continuing.

Hmm, interesting. So if those Israeli soldiers have been killed in close combat, that means the other side must have been in close combat too, eh? I guess Hezbollah is doing fine fighting on the front lines. Not only that, but if Israeli fights on the front lines and have lost 25+ soldiers so far while Hezbollah has only lost 35+ officially recognized members (the others have been said to be civilians), it means Hezbollah must be giving them a run for their money or Israeli soldiers just flat out suck in open combat to have a similar kill to death ratio as them. Actually, they suck even more considering Israel has dropped a helluva lot more rockets and bombs to help aid in those 35+ dead Hezbollah soldiers compared to Hezbollah's 1500 rockets.

Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

Why not? The U.S. continues to aid Israeli. Not to mention aiding them with better weaponry to an already more advanced army compared to Hezbollah. If Israel needs that much help already, they must not be doing too well. Even if Israel standed on it's own without outside help from the U.S., Syria arming Hezbollah still puts Israel way ahead in power and technology, yet Israel still has about the same amount of dead fighters as Hezbollah. Surely they'd do better than that...

- N

 

Great personel oppinion, but still retoric.

 

Israelis living in the northern part of the country were ordered to shelters and a vast majority of israeli's live in center of the country (out of katyusha range). Not to mention katyushas are WW2 technology

"How does that support his point? Uh, well if almost all Israeli are or were in the military due to the draft they have and can be called up at any time, then there aren't any civilian targets except children. So basically, Hezbollah has killed hardly any civilians since the only non-military personnel that are civilians are children, yet Israel has killed many thousands of civilians from other countries. Now who's the bigger terrorist?"

In that case all that moraly support hezbollah are hezbollah affiliates and deserve death. Even if they so much as smiled at the actions of a militant they deserve death for supporting them. Im sure a number of those "civilian women" have made a sandwich for hezbollah militants so now there considered hezbollah cooks and also deserve death.

You truly dont appreciate how difficult war is. America averages a 13% fratricide rate (http://www.carlisle.army.mil/usawc/Parameters/1995/steinweg.htm).

Now israel is fighting an enemy that blends in with the population and they Have no way of knowing where civilian populations hide. So we should fully expect civilian casualties to be as high as they are.

Hezbollah chooses where to fight and at what strength that’s a huge advantage in warfare. If hezbollah fought in a standard form and israel only had a 25/35 ratio then your criticism would be justified.

 

Same old same old

More than 54 civilians, at least 34 of them children, have been killed in a town in south Lebanon in the deadliest Israeli strike of the conflict so far.

Displaced families had been sheltering in the basement of a house in Qana, which was crushed after a direct hit.

Lebanon's prime minister denounced "Israeli war criminals" and cancelled talks with the US secretary of state.

Israel said it regretted the incident - but added that civilians had been warned to flee the village.

Reporters spoke of survivors screaming in grief and anger, as some scrabbled through the debris with bare hands.

"We want this to stop," a villager shouted.

"May God have mercy on the children. They came here to escape the fighting."

Rescuers found the experience too much to cope with.

Our correspondent saw a Red Cross rescue worker sitting in the sunshine just sobbing, overcome with emotion.

 

Nice try, but no. Those same weapons have crap guidance. Hezbollah couldn't even claim to be trying for Israeli military sites. Both they and Hamas (and Zakariya, apparently) also consider Israeli civilians legitimate targets, as they and their supporters have frequently stated.

 

they were warned they stayed they knew the consequences.

If they wanted it to stop they would pressure hezbollah to disband

 

More than 54 civilians, at least 34 of them children,
have been killed in a town in south Lebanon
in the deadliest Israeli strike of the conflict so far.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5228224.stm

Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

 

Hezbollah marketing strategy, or how to create your own business...

1. Maintain an ignorant population with limited access to different views of other peoples, especially if they are successful,
2. Create jealousy of, and a hatred myth about, "those" people,
3. Create a dual purpose social/military organization,
4. With your military wing, harass "those" people with sporadic attacks of abductions, suicide bombers and occasional rockets,
5. When "those" people say, "Enough is enough", and act to defend themselves, cry "...INVASION...",
6. Gather all the human shields you can find,
7. As your human shields are depleted, crawl to the UN saying how evil "those" people are,
8. Swear to fight to the death while calling for a cease-fire,
9. Cause as many casualties on your side as possible (of the human shields of course),
10. Build sympathy by bringing in your social wing to provide relief to the surviving human shields,
11. Recruit the able-bodied relief recipients into the military wing,
12. Go back to number 4 and repeat endlessly...

​