>GB-GIL Trans-global, >Palestenians may be in a bad situation now, and I would care >and support Palestine, *if* they were more reasonable, and >didn't call for the destruction of Israel entirely. Even an IRA >member will go to a social event with Catholics (without a bomb >strapped to him or a gun in his hand). The Palestinians are far >more bent on Jewish destruction. The Catholics didn't steal IRA land. >In the words of Palestinians: In the words of the Americans: "At least they didn't grow up and have families" (talking on black girls killed in a church bombing, with a hint of remorse that they were children) Now, does that sound like YOUR opinion? No. > "Have no mercy on the Jews, no matter where they are, in any >country. Fight them, wherever you are. Wherever you meet >them, kill them." Yes, kill those who immigrate to your country and then claim it as their own independent state and deny you your inalienable rights because of your race and religion. Show no mercy. Now, although that still doesn't sound quite right, it's different from saying "The rich-ass Palestinians have vowed to kill Israelis for absolutely no reason at all besides the fact that they hate them, and they don't know why". >"We must remember that the main enemy of the Palestinian >people, now and forever, is Israel. This is a truth that must >never leave our minds." >--- Palestinian Authority Justice Minister Freih Abu Middein Well, DUH. Now, wait patiently please for what comes at the end of this post, as that will reply ultimately to what you have to say here. >"Whomever has occupied part of Palestine or Jerusalem faces >jihad [holy war] until Judgment Day. Our destiny is jihad." >--- Sheikh Muhammad Hussein ... If Polish immigrants occupied your land or, worse yet, claimed it as their own country, you would say the same thing. >"Whoever is found to have sold land to Jews, his punishment is >death. It is forbidden to pray for him, it is forbidden to purify his >body before burial, and it is forbidden to bury him in a Muslim >cemetery." >--- Ikrama Sabri, Palestinian Authority mufti, Islamic religious >leader, for Jerusalem Same concept here. This is totally understandable under the circumstances. >"Despite all the conspiracies, Jerusalem and Palestine from the >River to the Sea will remain Islamic until judgment day...." >--- Ikrama Sabri Uhh... and your point is? I could probably quote you or your loved ones as saying "...Washington D.C.... and the US... will remain American... until the end of the earth." I'm not saying they've said that, but that's the way they feel. Does it make it any different if somebody steals their land? Does it suddenly become immoral? >"Holy war is our path. My death will be martyrdom. I will knock >on the gates of Paradise with the skulls of the sons of Zion." >--- Ayman Radi, a traffic policeman in the P.L.O. police force Perhaps you haven't taken a trip to Palestine lately. If you had, you'd be grieving for the Palestinians, the impoverished Palestinians with almost no hope of a homeland, instead of the rich-ass Israelis with US funding. Suicide bombers are basically the last attempt to win a hopeless war. >"Our enemy is a lowly enemy. The Palestinian people know >there is a state that was established through coercion and it >must be destroyed. This is the Palestinian way." >--- Farouk Qaddumi, head of the P.L.O.'s Political Department Same concept here. > "As a Palestinian police officer, I will not hesitate to give my gun >to anyone who approaches me and tells me he is going to >commit an attack against the army or the settlers. I will even >kiss the gun before and after the operation." >--- a P.L.O. recruit from Ramallah for the Palestinian police Same concept. From here onwards, instead of typing "same concept", I will simply type "SC". >"The goal of our struggle is the end of Israel, and there can be >no compromise." >--- Yasser Arafat SC here. Has Sharon not made statements similar to the above stated? >"Peace for us means the destruction of Israel. We are preparing >for an all-out war, a war which will last for generations." >--- Yasser Arafat SC. >"Slaughter the Jews!" >--- chant heard in mosques throughout Gaza on 25 November >1993 *bored* SC. OK, now I finish the post with a long analogy. I am hoping this will make the non-Palestinian-backing 87% of the population change their minds from thinking that I am a sadistic freak. ------- 2095, USA ------- Many immigrants are arriving from Kazakstan because of the crisis there. The Kazaks seem to think that the US is their promised land because Native Americans and them are pratically cousins. Sort of. 80% of Americans already living in the US, fearing a conflict, flee to Canada and surrounding islands, while a few flee to Europe. Now, as the Kazaks begin to flood the country and begin to become a sizable minority, fights begin to break out at Catalonian consulates, where the occupant governors are under attack because those under occupation are seeking a free state. Finally, the Kazaks make up half the population. They begin to act militantly for their claims of the land as their own, bombing Catalonian embassies and the like. While Americans are assisting them, they seem to be in disagreement about what will happen to the land after independence. When the Catalonian government decides to grant independence, they aren't sure which party to grant it to. Mild violence between Americans and Kazaks breaks out. The Catalonian government gives the land to the UN to decide what to do with it. The UN partitions the land, giving about half to an American homeland, and half to a Kazak homeland. Canada, however, is angered at the idea of Americans losing their land, and attacks a day after Kazaks declare independence. With the conflict in Kazakstan resolved, the wealthy and powerful Kazakstan steps in to aid the Kazaks in their war against the poorly-armed Canadians and Americans. The Kazaks end up occupying the land declared an American homeland, and they make settlements on them, claiming certain areas for housing. They even bulldoze a couple small American towns to put Kazak towns there. Many years later, the first suicide bomber attacks the Kazaks-- dan1123.
Because I've had a lot of experience with Christians who think the ACLU is evil because they're against displaying the 10 Commandments in public schools, or against public funding of BSA, etc.
Hey Dan1123, heres some more quotes for you: "I don't know something called International Principles. I vow that I'll burn every Palestinian child (that) will be born in this area. The Palestinian woman and child is more dangerous than the man,because the Palestinian childs existence infers that generationswill go on, but the man causes limited danger. I vow that if I wasjust an Israeli civilian and I met a Palestinian I would burn him and I would make him suffer before killing him. With one hit I've killed 750 Palestinians (in Rafah in 1956). I wanted to encourage mysoldiers by raping Arabic girls as the Palestinian women is a slavefor Jews, and we do whatever we want to her and nobody tells us whatwe shall do but we tell others what they shall do." [Ariel Sharon, current Prime Minister, In an interview with General Ouze Merham, 1956] 1. "There is a huge gap between us (Jews) and our enemies -not just in ability but in morality, culture, sanctity of life, and conscience. They are our neighbors here, but it seems as if at a distance of a few hundred meters away, there are people who do not belong to our continent, to our world, but actually belong to a different galaxy." Israeli president Moshe Katsav. The Jerusalem Post, May 10, 2001 Things that make you go Hmmmm. CHeck out the next 2-7 quotes. THey'll give you a good indication of what exactly the Israelis have been promoting (of course none where on CNN--things that make you go...hmmmm) 2. "The Palestinians are like crocodiles, the more you give them meat, they want more".... Ehud Barak, Prime Minister of Israel at the time - August 28, 2000. Reported in the Jerusalem Post August 30, 2000 3. " [The Palestinians are] beasts walking on two legs." Menahim Begin, speech to the Knesset, quoted in Amnon Kapeliouk, "Begin and the Beasts". New Statesman, 25 June 1982. 4. "The Palestinians" would be crushed like grasshoppers ... heads smashed against the boulders and walls." " Isreali Prime Minister(at the time) in a speech to Jewish settlers New York Times April 1, 1988 5. "When we have settled the land, all the Arabs will be able to do about it will be to scurry around like drugged cockroaches in a bottle." Raphael Eitan, Chief of Staff of the Israeli Defence Forces, New York Times, 14 April 1983. 6. "How can we return the occupied territories? There is nobody to return them to." Golda Meir, March 8, 1969. 7. "There was no such thing as Palestinians, they never existed." Golda Maier Israeli Prime Minister June 15, 1969 You think Israelies ever wanted a peaceful solution??? THey've been too busy paying huge amounts of cash (i wonder if that was poss. from the 5 bill they get from US) to hire US propeganda firms to push the Israeli side. THe reason why u dont hear the Palistinian, for that matter, any muslim countries views, is that they dont have a voice in america and certainly not the kind of cash needed to hire PR firms while their nations people are dying of hunger. Read on: 8. "The thesis that the danger of genocide was hanging over us inJune 1967 and that Israel was fighting for its physical existence is only bluff, which was born and developed after the war." Israeli General Matityahu Peled, Ha'aretz, 19 March 1972. 9. David Ben Gurion (the first Israeli Prime Minister): "If I were an Arab leader, I would never sign an agreement with Israel. It is normal; we have taken their country. It is true God promised it to us, but how could that interest them? Our God is not theirs. There has been Anti- Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault ?They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?" Quoted by Nahum Goldmann in Le Paraddoxe Juif (The Jewish Paradox), pp121. Well, someone seems to have not only gotten it right, but managed to dupe the world (US) into believing otherwise. the Palestinians have already accepted Israel's existence on 78% of what was Palestine. Bible: God said to Abraham, "Unto thyseed, I will give thy land." Abraham had two sons. Ismael, the Arab son, and Isaac, the Jewish son. So even if one wants to go to the Bible, the land would belong to both. Frankly tho its the holy land for all three major religions, Islam, Christianity and Judaism. However, the issue here is not religion, its land grabbing, plain and simple economics. 9a. Ben Gurion also warned in 1948 : "We must do everything to insure they ( the Palestinians) never do return." Assuring his fellow Zionists that Palestinians will never come back to their homes. "The old will die and the young will forget." 10. "We have to kill all the Palestinians unless they are resigned to live here as slaves." Chairman Heilbrun of the Committee for the Re-election of General Shlomo Lahat, the mayor of Tel Aviv, October1983. 11. "Every time we do something you tell me America will do this and will do that . . . I want to tell you something very clear: Don't worry about American pressure on Israel. We, the Jewish people, control America, and the Americans know it." - Israeli Prime Minister, Ariel Sharon, October 3, 2001, to Shimon Peres, as reported on Kol Yisrael radio. Please remeber, this is a quote from the country whom you give 5 BILLION dollars a year scott free, 3 of which is to buy US weapons. 5billion. more than what US gives to the entire starving African continent. 12. "We declare openly that the Arabs have no right to settle on even one centimeter of Eretz Israel... Force is all they do or everwill understand. We shall use the ultimate force until the Palestinians come crawling to us on all fours." Rafael Eitan, Chief of Staff of the Israeli Defense Forces - Gad Becker, Yediot Ahronot 13 April 1983, New York Times 14 April 1983. 13. "We must do everything to ensure they [the Palestinian refugees] never do return" David Ben-Gurion, in his diary, 18 July 1948, quoted in Michael Bar Zohar's Ben-Gurion: the Armed Prophet, Prentice-Hall, 1967, p. 157. 15. "We should prepare to go over to the offensive. Our aim is to smash Lebanon, Trans-Jordan, and Syria. The weak point is Lebanon, for the Moslem regime is artificial and easy for us to undermine. We shall establish a Christian state there, and then we will smash the Arab Legion, eliminate Trans-Jordan; Syria will fall to us. We then bomb and move on and take Port Said, Alexandria and Sinai." David Ben-Gurion, May 1948, to the General Staff. From Ben-Gurion, A Biography, by Michael Ben Zohar, Delacorte, New York 1978. Were we talking about world domination earlier....? 16. "We must use terror, assassination, intimidation, land confiscation, and the cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab population." Israel Koenig, "The Koenig Memorandum" hmmmm, sounds a bit terrorist like, no? 17. "Jewish villages were built in the place of Arab villages. You do not even know the names of these Arab villages, and I do not blame you because geography books no longer exist. Not only do the books not exist, the Arab villages are not there either. Nahlal arose in the place of Mahlul; Kibbutz Gvat in the place of Jibta; Kibbutz Sarid in the place of Huneifis; and Kefar Yehushua in the place of Tal al-Shuman. There is not a single place built in this country that did not have a former Arab population." Moshe Dayan, address to the Technion, Haifa, reported in Haaretz, April 4, 1969. Genocide? Deprivation of land? Deprivation of history? whos to blame? Lets not forget the Israeli point of view. 18. "We walked outside, Ben-Gurion accompanying us. Allon repeated his question, What is to be done with the Palestinian population?'Ben-Gurion waved his hand in a gesture which said 'Drive them out!'" Yitzhak Rabin, leaked censored version of Rabin memoirs, published in the New York Times, 23 October 1979. 19. Rabin's description of the conquest of Lydda, after the completion of Plan Dalet. "We shall reduce the Arab population to a community of woodcutters and waiters" Uri Lubrani, PM Ben Gurion's special adviser on Arab Affairs, 1960. From "The Arabs in Israel" by Sabri Jiryas. 20. "There are some who believe that the non-Jewish population, even in a high percentage, within our borders will be more effectively under our surveillance; and there are some who believe the contrary, i.e., that it is easier to carry out surveillance over the activities of a neighbor than over those of a tenant. tend to support the latter view and have an additional argument:...the need to sustain the character of the state which will henceforth be Jewish...with a non-Jewish minority limited to 15 percent. I had already reached this fundamental position as early as 1940 [and] it is entered in my diary." Joseph Weitz, head of the Jewish Agency's Colonization Department. From Israel: an Apartheid State by Uri Davis, p.5. 21. "Everybody has to move, run and grab as many hilltops as they can to enlarge the settlements because everything we take now will stay ours... Everything we don't grab will go to them." Ariel Sharon, Israeli Foreign Minister, addressing a meeting of militants from the extreme right-wing Tsomet Party, Agence France Presse, November 15, 1998. WHat an admirable man, and what admirable values he imparts to his people. Which, of course the US stands by. I ask now, you say muslims dont stand up against extremist element. Where are the moderate jews? 22. "It is the duty of Israeli leaders to explain to public opinion, clearly and courageously, a certain number of facts that are forgotten with time. The first of these is that there is no Zionism,colonialization or Jewish State without the eviction of the Arabs and the expropriation of their lands." Yoram Bar Porath, Yediot Aahronot, of 14 July 1972. 23. "Spirit the penniless population across the frontier by denying it employment... Both the process of expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discreetly and circumspectly." Theodore Herzl, founder of the World Zionist Organization, speaking of the Arabs of Palestine,Complete Diaries, June 12, 1895 ent NOTE: Israel allots 85% of the water resources for Jews and the remaining 15% is divided among all Palestinians in the territories? For example in Hebron, 85% of the water is given to about 400 settlers, while 15% must be divided among Hebron's 120,000 Palestinians? NOTE: 5 BILLION dollars a year scott free go to Israel from US govt, 3 of which is to buy US weapons. While they put sanctions on Palistine. $5billion. more than what US gives to the entire starving African continent. American tax dollars. so frankly americans are paying for israels war against Palistine, in that respect should the attack on WTC be catagorised as an act of war? and WTC "collateral damage?" Can you see now why the Palistinians would think so? See both sides, that is the rule of law the US was created upon. Let yourself think. For the fundemental point of democracy is that you, each tax payer, is responsible for your nations choices, eg foreign policy. And you will be held responsible eventually if you dont wake up (case in point WTC). Dont just rely on one source of info (eg CNN/Fox) all the time, you'll only get one side of the story. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! By the way, i'm not supporting terrorist activities, that means, ANY nation involved, be it Saudi, be it USA. I support the right of man. Every man. Regardless of his religion, nation or creed. i just cant see soo much pain, so much suffering and a people having no voice
I think he is just ignoring you now. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Good research thou. It shows the world how wicked Israelis goverment it.
If Israelis are bent on Muslim destruction, then why does the dome of the rock stand on their holiest of holies? If Israel is so bad, then why did they back down and give land *back* after they were attacked, fought a war, and won? When the Muslims took over Jerusalem in the seventh century, they destroyed the Jewish temple, and put up their own temple. They made it their holy site, and disallowed any Jews from entering. That's real tolerance, right? And I suppose Israel is just as bad for wanting to protect its sliver of land in the middle east from people whose leaders have vowed to destroy it--and have tried to destroy Israel since the first year it began. I suppose your solustion would be that Israel give up Jerusalem and a big chunk of land for a Palestinian state. Why would this be? Do they have any more right than Israel has to it? We have to be talking about rights too since Israel would win a battle for the land. If you say they both have an equal right, or you don't agree that their holy books should have any bearing, then why not carve out a piece of Jordan for the Palestinian state? There's a sizeable number of Palestinians there--and plenty of Palestinians in refugee camps in Jordan--you just never hear about those. Heck you could probably throw in a chunk of northern Israel to make sure each country gave a fair amount. Of course the problem is that Palestinians want Jerusalem, and are willing to terrorize Israel to try and get it. So do we kick the Jews out then? And have a democracy fall to nothing in favor of a dictatorship? Or maybe the U.S. should create a state that dislikes them on purpose, to try and appease the people who were gleeful at 9/11. And where would we put the Jews then? They got a state after being burned by the millions under Hitler, so maybe we could remove a chunk of Germany, and make them migrate 1,000 miles away from their homes. Maybe we could go door to door and slap some sense into each and every one of them and show them that the land that they want so badly isn't really that valuable--or that big. You see, the U.S. may have been giving Israel money, but that has gained them power over there. The power is evidenced by Palestinian areas still existing under Israel, even after wars and attacks. The power is shown by Israel backing off land after it has won a war. If you take away the money, you take away U.S. influence. Then you have an Israel that appears weak to the arab nations around it which don't want Israel there anyway. So you start a war, that Israel--with well-trained soldiers and American weapons--will probably win. So what do you do then? Let Israel have the land they won? Or maybe start reinstating aid so that the influence can buy you another Israeli withdrawl? Do you force the Jews to keep the dome of the rock standing, or do you allow them to build their temple? Or maybe some arab nation will attempt to win by sending a weapon of mass destruction. Do you think Israel would not retaliate? Then you get the U.S. involved because it is an ally of Israel. And sides are taken across the globe. You then have global thermonuclear war. So there are your choices. Remove U.S. funding and you either return to the status quo or you get world war III. Keep U.S. funding, and you still have terrorist activities because neither side wants to give up that sliver of land. Don't be naive enough to think either side is an innocent victim. We have to judge by different means than a some black and white, right and wrong judgement. I think all the U.S. is doing is trying to prevent a global disaster.
Just my two cents. Frankly, I think both sides are making a lot of mistakes and killing a lot of people unnecessarily. <b>But</b> if I had to pick, I'd support Isreal, since it is the only democracy in the area, and I think as a democratic country we have a duty to protect democracies. Save the arguments about how the U.S. shouldn't be getting involved or how the Palestinians (or Israelis for that matter) are justified in their attacks, the fact is I'd much rather support a country in which people are free to think and say over one that actively oppresses free speech and forces religion. And don't tell me that Israel doesn't practice free speech, they do within reason, similar to the U.S. And don't tell me that a Muslim country is not oppressive. Even "moderate" Muslim countries have rather large limits on free speech and many odd religious laws. (Such as the requiring a certain length of sleeves on a shirt, etc.) Anyways, I'd really like to see both sides back the hell down, but if I <b>had</b> to pick, I'd support Israel.
Isreal "gave" back land because of international pressure. i'm not getting into 7th century reasonings for the exixtence of Israel. By that regard USA should give ALLLLL of US back to the REd Indians? As for solutions, Israel needs to get out of all occupied territories. do you know what "occupied" means.. it means you're occupying somthing that isnt yours. Its not the Palistinians fault what the Germans did to the Jews, WHY i ask you, was not German land given to Jews? It wasnt conveniently enough, but it was ok to muscle out the Palistinians because they were poor. Once the Jews had israel, its not as if they are happy with that, they want more and more and more. THATS the problem. for Israel, even Palistine will not be enough. According to their PM, even America (see last post) is under their control. Yes, and it was also shown by the massacre of Jenin (just to state a recent example) where refugees were murdered, women and children raped, homes torched, and the whole thing hidden by raizing the ground and buring it all. Now if that doesnt sound a little Nazish, i dont know what does. I dont say either party is innocent. i'm just saying that Israel has an undue advantage which it has been abusing for too long at the expense of human lives, for purely economic benefit. But why the US must stick its nose in, you'll have to ask the fund managers of Congress members. Back to the Subject of religion, as i mentioned before, and Dan has proved, the issue is one of politics and economics, NOTHING to do wiht religion. You cant hate 1,800,000,000 people because of a religion, it is not one of war but allows its members to fight for their property (as anyone in america too would do). If you bother to read it, the responsibilities it lays down are ones that the US fulfills for its nationals in the US(basic rights you take for granted), so the US cannot be "the EVIL WEST". But its policies have and will continue to get its own nationals (who most often dont have a clue why this is happening, exept by what they hear on t.v.), into situations of terror. Solutions dont come from hatred but from finding the root of the problem. The problems isnt islam, its extremists who use the name of islam to rile the poor (age old, but successful story) for their economic ends. its happened in all religions.
Islam and Socialism Islam is a lot like socialism/communism. Techinically, communism does not mandate the genocide of millions of people. The <i>real</i> communism is good, right? But in practice it breaks down. Islam is similar. In Islam it's possible to be modern and have freedom, but in practice it never happens. It's not the <i>real</i> Islam, right?
Re: Islam and Socialism Does Islam mandate the genocide of millions of people?Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! I think in practice it is very possible that people can be modren and free and be muslim. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! .
"Does Islam mandate the genocide of millions of people? I think in practice it is very possible that people can be modren and free and be muslim." You can never truly be free if you belong to any religion.
Re: Just my two cents. Frankly, I think both sides are making a lot of mistakes and killing a lot of people unnecessarily. Well, a war's a war. I'm not for violent death of anybody, but it's what happens. <b>But</b> if I had to pick, I'd support Isreal, since it is the only democracy in the area, and I think as a democratic country we have a duty to protect democracies. Well, apparently you're one of those closed-minded bitches who 1. thinks the US is a democracy 2. thinks that everybody on the Internet is from the US, otherwise they're 'international audiences'. World Wide Web, morons! Not "web that belongs mainly to the US but that the US has decided to share with other countries". Hah. http://wtbmttubttuhdtswoc.yahoo.com... rather long URLs... The US is not a democracy. Simply having freedom of speech, of the press, and to the pursuit of happiness (as long as you dont infringe on that right of others) does not make a country a democracy. If it does, I can name some Mideastern democracies for you. Bahrain, Qatar. (Bahrain is a Constitutional Monarchy in real life, but you seem to think that democracy means those rights) Now, US citizens are not allowed the right to the pursuit of happiness. If I wish to smoke marijuana, I can't, the law prevents it (one might argue that that is harmful to others, but they can wear surgical masks and protective wear, if marijuana is illegal, even for medical reasons, tobacco should be illegal too) I can't say "fuck" on my radio station. Probably not in my newspaper. Not on my liscence plate if I wish to drive into a school parking lot. Not on TV unless it's pay-per-view, premium, or cable/satellite exclusive. What makes a democracy a democracy is that either THE PEOPLE REPRESENT THEMSELVES or THE PEOPLE ARE GIVEN EQUAL REPRESENTATION IN A PARLIAMENT/CABINET. EQUAL, NOT "ELECTORAL COLLEGIATE" OR SOME MESSED-UP SYSTEM LIKE THE US'. Also, they must be allowed freedom of everything. Are Palestinians represented equally in Israel's Knesset? What about Israeli Arabs? 15% of the Knesset should be Arab and Muslim if it is a democracy. There should be no ministries, and no Sharon. The right of return (making Palestinians the majority probably) would exist. Palestinians and Israelis would have equal amounts of water per person (not water altogether, as they aren't the same amount of people). Save the arguments about how the U.S. shouldn't be getting involved or how the Palestinians (or Israelis for that matter) are justified in their attacks, the fact is I'd much rather support a country in which people are free to think and say over one that actively oppresses free speech and forces religion. Oh, please. Bahrain and Qatar allow people free speech (in Qatar, "within reason") Also, although Israel does not force religion, you are rewarded extensively for being Jewish, and scolded for being Muslim. And don't tell me that Israel doesn't practice free speech, they do within reason, similar to the U.S. So? Actually, there are many countries where free speech is not allowed, but nobody knows as the government makes it secret (they go after articles secretly, etc.) Within reason? Please, you're just like Western Esperantists. You seem to be able to look at the world only from your own point of view (bloated Americanist Federalist for Western values). Please note that I live in the US as well, and I have lived here all my life and have no sense of foreign identity. And don't tell me that a Muslim country is not oppressive. Even "moderate" Muslim countries have rather large limits on free speech and many odd religious laws. (Such as the requiring a certain length of sleeves on a shirt, etc.) Uhh... Bahrain. Qatar. Afghanistan (think "coalition gov't"). Bahrain and Qatar even have an official agreement that their flags will contain a zigzag-edged largest-portion color patch with two color patches total, signifying that they are "friendly" Arab countries. Also, Malaysia. Indonesia. India (think "Hindu majority, sizable Muslim minority"). Azerbaijan. (many formerly Soviet "stans"). Turkey. Georgia. Bangladesh. I've listed 2 Arab countries and a number of predominantly-Muslim countries for your pleasure (think "sexual stimulus"). Also, Lebanon (if I recall correctly) now has no Islamic laws in its official laws. Oh, and many non-Arab countries in Africa are predominantly Muslim. And Iran has a SAR off its coast, a little island experiment. Tourism encouraged! Anyways, I'd really like to see both sides back the hell down, but if I <b>had</b> to pick, I'd support Israel. Yes, because they won't give their land back to the Palestinians just like you won't to the Amerinds. Canada has done something to this affect. Why not follow suit? Oh, I forgot, this fucking country likes to meddle with other countries' business and end up messing large portions of the world up. Duh. (think "Vietnam": there were few non-Communists in South Vietnam. This was a fucking st00pid war, airlifts are OK I guess)
I dont know why u say technically, i've never heard of communism promoting genocide of any nature whatsoever? please elaborate? Islam certainly does not mandate the genocide of millions. Yes it is possible to be modern and have freedom in islam. Look at Turkey, the CIS -ex-russian states (eg azerbaijan ). in fact islamwas the first religion that gave women rights and in a time when no country/religion gave women the right to hold land, islam prevailed. you're somewhat right to say that modern islam is not practiced. the stories you hear aabout are of countries like afghanistan, which vere towards fundementalism. In such countries the problem rests in lack of education, poverty, lack of any opportunities whatsoever to move beyond the level of satisfying basic needs, such as feeding a family. There is a very big difference bet. religion and culture. some countries calling themselves 'muslim' countries have a very oppressive culture esp. towards women. there are places where the girl-child is buried alive/at birth even today because of her gender. this is done in "muslim" countries, BUT this is not islam, in fact there is an entire para/verse dedicated to the infanticide and how that is a heinious crime. Women are to this day murdered and they call it "honour killing" (eg if a woman has an affair befor/after marrige w a man- she may be killed by her family). the justification given for this is based on a saying of the holy prophet and often the Q'ran too, which says"men have the duty to protect women".... What does that say to u??? i bet you'll never guess what it says to extremists.i.e.. "because a woman is under the protection of a man, if she does not listen to him, he cannot protect her, therefore he may kill her":bugeye: Now the very people who practice such things then go off and terrorise nations (their own and ohters) and claim they do it in the name of islam. it is not only these people but these concepts that need to be cleared up. and yes moderate muslims need to, and have been promoting a moderate and modern islam. as islam is, by its own account, a way of life, then it can not allow life to stagnate, but move forward with the times. for example, in the Q'ran it says 'women should dress modestly'. now modesty is a relative term. during a time of lawlessness, yes it meant to cover ones head because it protected women themselves (who did not have the freedoms we all take for granted today). certain cultures today have retained that not in spirit but as it was 500 yrs ago. that no matter what , a woman must cover herself top to bottom. can you blame them, after all, they're still living in that same era, no t.v., no radio, no progression, lack of education, a stagnant culture, poverty... .. these are the things that breed extremism. not islam... Economics.
You need to read more history books, the Islamic sultans started Jihad against the rest of the world in 632AD. All non-Islamic lands & people are called "dar al-harb" (land of war, as opposed to "dar al-islam", land of Islam). Find out what happened in the Holy Land after the Turkish Sultan refused Christians entry into there. And what happened to them & the Christian minorities through his rule.
I agree, read more books; Asia is full of wars, even before Europeans got there. Buddhists, Hindus, etc. No one is immune from anger and violence. Why do you think the Shaolin Temple monks, needed to develop a Kung Fu system?
That's because it's still in it's infancy, another post states, the TGC' will kill some Christians. Only if you leave out the Communist belief system; they tried to wipe out Christianity in the old Soviet Union, Viet Nam, Laos, Cambodia, Korea & China. I think you could safety say millions died, check it out. They didn't even like free thinkers. And I think that if any atheistic-system came into power, well it would want to wipe out those 'pesky' Christians and then start war, genocide, etc...
Randolfo: Only if they wake him up to hand him literature. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Seriously, Cthulhu kills everybody, regardless. Even his followers. Cthulhu informs me that athiests are "yummiest", but he gave me that weird leering look when he said it, so I think that it was some lame attempt at a double-entendre. So how many people have been killed in the name of BOB? Umm, ah, I don't know what you've been concentrating and inhaling, but you are talking about a quasi-religious institution attacking another religion. Ah, but a quasi-athiestic one is in power - in the US of A. Funny thing, I don't see many Christians being persecuted.
"Only if you leave out the Communist belief system; they tried to wipe out Christianity in the old Soviet Union, Viet Nam, Laos, Cambodia, Korea & China. I think you could safety say millions died, check it out. They didn't even like free thinkers. And I think that if any atheistic-system came into power, well it would want to wipe out those 'pesky' Christians and then start war, genocide, etc..." They killed in the name of Communism. Not atheism. Atheism was just an important part of communism.
I'm beginning to think we should have an intelligence screening for getting into this board...... "Thanks for the distinction, I'm sure it really made a differance to the victims." Youuuuuuuuu idiot. We're discussing killing in the name of theism/atheism. You say that the example of 'killing in the name of atheism' was the CCCP. I point out that they didn't kill in the name of atheism. Now you're telling me that it doesn't matter. People just get dumber and dumber. "And I think that if any atheistic-system came into power, well it would want to wipe out those 'pesky' Christians and then start war, genocide, etc..." Do you have anything to suggest this? Or is just a guess that you're making because it supports your side? Please go back to grade 8 and learn how to write arguementative papers. Hmmmm, let's look at some nations run by atheists. Canada is a good one. Incredibly diversified. Majority of people are either agnostic, atheistic or very thinly religious. How many wars have we started? How many genocides? Hey, I got an idea. Let's look at a list of genocides and see which ones were religion driven. Sound fair? 1450-1792; Christians murdering 'Satan Worshipers' - Religion Driven 1492-1800's; Christian Europeans murdering Native Americans for being Native Americans - Commited by theists, commited because of religion....same thing happened in Australia 1915-1916; In Turkey the Moslem government effectively wiped out Christians in the nation - Religion Driven 1917-1987; The CCCP killed millions of it's citizens through work camps mainly. I, along with many other people would argue Marxist-Leninist Communism is DEFINETLY a religion 1939-1945; Germans slaughter over eight million Jews/Gypsies/Gays/Commies. Many more are tortured - You'd have to be an idiot to not call this Religion Driven 1949-1987; Chinese Communist government slaughters many of it's citizens. Not unlike CCCP. Again, Marxist-Leninist-Maoist Communism is DEFINETLY a religion. If you don't know why, feel free to ask. 1975-1999; In East Timor the Moslems slaughter the Catholics. - Religion Driven 1994; Rwanda ethnic cleansing - Religion Driven 1995-1999; Bosnia-Herzgovenia sees a bunch of Serbian Orthodox Christians slaughter a bunch of Moslems. - Religion Driven 1998-1999; Kosovo holds another Orthodox-Christian-slaughtering-Moslems war. - Religion Driven How about the Crusades? Inquisitions?
