what you need to know

Discussion in 'World Events' started by leopold, Dec 9, 2006.

  1. leopold Valued Senior Member

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  3. Crunchy Cat F-in' *meow* baby!!! Valued Senior Member

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    Another nutjob theist.
     
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  5. leopold Valued Senior Member

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    what did you think about the last 3 or so minutes?
     
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  7. Crunchy Cat F-in' *meow* baby!!! Valued Senior Member

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    I think it's a great reason to keep the war on Islam off of American soil and in Iraq. Let the muslim world focus their efforts there.
     
  8. Nickelodeon Banned Banned

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    War on Islam?
     
  9. Crunchy Cat F-in' *meow* baby!!! Valued Senior Member

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    Correct
     
  10. SpyMoose Secret double agent deer Registered Senior Member

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    We can't keep it there forever, though, can we? Even if we went to extraordinary lengths to keep it going the longest war America was ever able to fight lasted about a decade. The militarys own studies show that the Iraq conflict is radicalizing whole populations of previously neutral Muslims, and breeding a new generation of terrorists. A real insurgent war is a darn sight more effective at creating an effective gurilla force than any two camels and a balance beam sort of terrorist training camp that we might have demolished in Afghanistan. I think the idea that "we are fighting them over there so we don't have to fight them over here" is a willfully short sighted sentiment.

    The Insurgency in Iraq isn't primarily composed of pre-existing terrorists or extremists, it is a new force that our ineptitude in doing such things as destroying Iraqi civilian infrastructure that provides power and water, and disbanding their military has created. We turned Iraqis into desperate people. While Iraq was never a source of willing recruits for terrorist organizations in the past it is now a leader in that field and will remain so even when we withdraw from the region. We have no idea how to fight a threat of this kind.

    In addition, you can't take anything Glenn Beck says too seriously. The man isn't a journalist, he's a rant style stand up comedian like George Carlan only he is no good at thinking up jokes.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2006
  11. Crunchy Cat F-in' *meow* baby!!! Valued Senior Member

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    SpyMoose,

    I don't think its being understood what the problem is and I'll attempt to describe it. Let's say for example, Russia declared Barcelona was a threat and did the same thing to them that the U.S. did to Iraq. Would it destablize the world population of the dominant Barcelonian religion? Probably not.

    So what's difference then? The present meme of Islam does not allow its people constructive feedback. They are simply cut off. So what's left? Destructive feedback.

    By keeping U.S. military on Iraq soil (and yes I understand this is not something that can be sustained forever) then we've created an attractive bucket for Islam to dump all its destructive feedback.

    Why is this so important?

    * It gives us the opportunity to find methods of giving Muslims the ability to provide constructive feedback.
    * It gives us leverage to pressure Islamic leaders to adopt and promote outlets of constructive feedback.
    * It gives us the opportunity to replace the current instance of the Islamic meme in favor of one that is more compatible with reality.
    * It routes the bulk of the destructive feedback to a bounded repository.

    So yes, this is a war against the present instance of Islam (the meme) and keeping U.S. troops on Iraq soil maintains the negative feedback bucket.
     
  12. SpyMoose Secret double agent deer Registered Senior Member

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    Crunchy Cat,

    If you are willing to suggest that Russia could invade Barcelona without Europe and other NATO forces striking back to the fullest of their capabilities then you are too dishonest, or in too much of a hurry to rationalize your existing irrational biases to be effectively argued with. If you think that the Middle East is the only region with strategic alliances, and populations of people who are sympathetic to the causes of their neighbors then I must conclude that you are either dishonest, or psychologically compelled to reject rationality in favor of an ideology that provides you with some sort of benefit that you hold over the value of reason.

    Unwavering loyalty to the perceived causes of Islam is a disgusting epidemic that plagues the Middle East, and you would counter it with disgusting reason defying loyalty to your nation, and others would count it with disgusting reason defying loyalty to their own god. You have it entirely wrong and rejecting rationality is not an act of patriotism. Only real analysis of the situation we are in can come up with effective solutions.
     
  13. Crunchy Cat F-in' *meow* baby!!! Valued Senior Member

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    I never once suggested that Europe etc. would not strike back with their fullest capabilities. Maybe what I was saying was not understood. I asked an important question and to paraphrase it is:

    If such an action were to be taken by Russia, would it destablize the world's religious population into extremism (for those having the same religion as the dominant one in Barcelona)?

    The present instance of Islam is not compatible enough with reality and it doesn't have a constructive feedback mechanism to promote adapatation to reality. I don't know if you understand this and I think its immensly important that it be understood.
     
  14. SpyMoose Secret double agent deer Registered Senior Member

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    I believe that such an invasion would have such an effect, but we are back to sophistry aren't we, since there are no tensions between Barcelona and Russia ready to flair up, and any such conflict would greatly depend on such history. I can speculate my way and you can speculate yours and it doesn't get us anywhere.
    You would be right about the present instance of Islam not being compatible enough with reason or peace if it were not the case that the vast majority of Muslims were currently uninvolved in any sort of violence. Whereas you are content to paint an entire ethnic or religious population as bad seeds, I suppose I would only find issue with the actual militants or espousers of militant philosophies. Islam in whole or in majority is not the problem, violent fundamentalists are. Perhaps a majority of Muslims hate Israel or the USA, but sticks and stones. I don't care what they think as long as they are not part of a militant sect.

    Also, I have passive aggressively inserted the "(sic)" notations into my quote of your post. May I recommend that you use the latest version of Mozilla's Fire Fox web browser, which has a built in spell check.
     
  15. The Devil Inside Banned Banned

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    i watched the whole presentation, and i came away with one conclusion:

    it (this shockumentary) does nothing repeat the same terrible acts that it accuses radical islam of committing.

    this program was designed as propoganda, pure and simple. surely, anybody with an iota of free will can see this.

    sure, there are muslims that hate the western world.

    are they numerous? probably.
    are they fanatical? probably.

    but to state that an entire nation (iran, which much of the focus is on) hates us is ludicrous.

    propoganda, pure and simple.
    i am jewish.
     
  16. Crunchy Cat F-in' *meow* baby!!! Valued Senior Member

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    It does goes us places because it lets us see the thought processes going into predicting outcomes (no matter how hypothetical). If memory serves me right, Sudan and Chad are causing quite a bit of violent strife for central Africa. I am reasponable certain the whole international community cares and I am definately certain it's not causing world-wide religious extremism.

    I would assert that the reason for this is religious members whom share the same dominant religion as those in central Africa live in places that allow for and promote constructive feedback; thus, making the meme a heck of alot more adaptable.

    I want to correct a mis-perception. I don't paint an entire religious population as bad seeds. I'll say it once and I'll say it again. The problem is not the people... the problem is the meme. You are quite correct in that there are many mulslims in the middle east whom are uninvolved with violence. They are however subject to a meme that only provides a means for destructive feedback.

    So this is where we disagree. I think the meme of Islam is the problem and you think the militants and promoters of militants are the problem. IMO, if we fix the meme by providing a means for constructive feedback then the militant behavior is suffocated. If we attack the militant problem then we never fix the missing constructive feedback outlet in the Islamic meme and the risk for really bad extremism will always remain.

    I noticed... and while your altruistic efforts to keep my forum spelling in check are noted, I am satisfied using my outdated IE browser and keeping any spelling / grammar errors.
     
  17. Crunchy Cat F-in' *meow* baby!!! Valued Senior Member

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    Hahahaha, beautiful.
     
  18. SpyMoose Secret double agent deer Registered Senior Member

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    I didn't find many major points of contention in your previous post, and am mellowing out for the evening, so I'm willing to suppose that most of our argument is centered around incomplete understandings of one another's positions and different preferences of terminology.

    But I do insist on trying out the latest version of Fire Fox. I honestly have no idea how I lived without tabbed browsing. Rather than opening up a new window for each new web page you wish to view at once, you open up a new "tab" within your one web browser. It just makes my screen much less cluttered and it's even easier to flip quickly between multiple pages, such as if I wanted to have my reference open in one tab and sciforms open in another.
     
  19. Crunchy Cat F-in' *meow* baby!!! Valued Senior Member

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    You might be right and sounds like my interpretation of our disagreement (bad meme vs. bad people) is the correct one.

    Meh... having multiple tabs isn't a motivator for me at present. Should that change I can use IE7, FF, Opera, etc.
     
  20. Hue_Hare Banned Banned

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    everytime I am scocked anew.
     
  21. To Post It Up Banned Banned

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    it is on extremists Islam.
     
  22. Crunchy Cat F-in' *meow* baby!!! Valued Senior Member

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    The present Meme of Islam is what generates the extremists. Fix the Meme and suffocate the problem.
     
  23. hypewaders Save Changes Registered Senior Member

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    Please define this meme, and provide an estimate of how many people and where ascribe to it.
     

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