Are you the same you that you were

Discussion in 'General Philosophy' started by Zephyr, Dec 31, 2006.

  1. Zephyr Humans are ONE Registered Senior Member

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    ...yesterday, or even a second ago? If you lose your memories or other mental faculties, have you lost pieces of your self? If you learn something, have you augmented yourself?

    Just wondering how people define themselves.
     
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  3. imaplanck. Banned Banned

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    I reckon it depends on whether the memories have also gone from the subconscious brain, if they have I would certainly say that it has changed the nurture side of your makeup. Certainly what ever happens in the next second will change you to some degree, to what extent will depend on whats gone before it(your genetics and prior experiences), or if you prefer- you.
     
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  5. Meanwhile Banned Banned

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    It depends what you consider being you. Are you superficial, or do you have depth—an intrinsic bedrock from which a peculiar you evolves... regardless of the role-acting that the personality settles with?
     
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  7. imaplanck. Banned Banned

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    Thats irrelevant! whether you do have "depth—an intrinsic bedrock from which a peculiar you evolves... regardless of the role-acting that the personality" or not, my arguement still applies, test it!
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2006
  8. c7ityi_ Registered Senior Member

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    i'm recreated/reborn every second.

    i am the emptiness where all knowledge, personalities and stuff is put.

    if i lose all my memory and thoughts, i come closer to the real me, nothing.

    no, that's stupid..
     
  9. draqon Banned Banned

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    Im the same me as I ever have been since recognition since birth
     
  10. imaplanck. Banned Banned

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    Huh? So you are only a product of your genetics and experiences have no bearing on your life?

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  11. John Connellan Valued Senior Member

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    Here's a question. Probably for the more scientific minded. Are u the same as when u were much younger (say ten years ago since the lifetime of most if not all cells is less than that). If every cell in your body has been replaced, are u the same?!
     
  12. Zephyr Humans are ONE Registered Senior Member

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    I think if the idea of self comes mostly from the brain, and the structures there don't change, individually replacing cells wouldn't make much of a difference. Any more than copying all your files onto another drive before swapping the drives would change your computer...
     
  13. Avatar smoking revolver Valued Senior Member

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    I am a manifestation of the universe, and since the universe/energy is eternal, so am I.
    If you are talking about a consciousness, then it as a biochemical and electrical process is dynamic and changing each moment.
     
  14. John Connellan Valued Senior Member

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    For such a thing as 'memory' to persist, how can cells be replaced at all? Like what is remembering the structure of the neuronal circuits in the brain as they are being replaced? Who is the grand master?!
     
  15. superluminal I am MalcomR Valued Senior Member

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    Long-term memories are thought to be formed by growing new neuronal networks. According to the neural network understanding of the brain, the connections are "weighted" and reinforced by use. Under-use can result in the weakening or loss of these connections. You forget. Apparently however, once a certain threshold of stimulation is reached they can become permanent. If the cells that make up the "memory" are damaged, the memory is lost.

    Functional areas of the brain can be "reassigned" as with people who lose motor skills in an accident but can retrain their brains and recover those skills. Memories though cannot really be recoverd if lost due to physical damage.

    There is no "Grand Master".
     
  16. superluminal I am MalcomR Valued Senior Member

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    I believe I am the "same" person from moment-to-moment because the fundamental way that I process the world does not change, and my continuity of memory provides a link, however tenuous, as far back as my childhood at the age of at least 4.
     
  17. John Connellan Valued Senior Member

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    Yes but I'm asking how these permanent networks are maintained even though the neurons themselves die and are regenerated (after a few years). What organises these neurons and tells them how to grow back?
     
  18. shakushinnen Registered Senior Member

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    Hi Zephyr,
    No, you're constantly changing, like everything else. Buddhism says that there is no continuiing self, and that what we think of as self is a composite of the five of consciousness (hearing, seeing, smelling, feeling, tasting), plus mind. I can't say I completely understand it, but it sounds plausible. Anyway the fact that we are constantly changing does seem to indicate that there is no self in the sense of an unchanging entity.
    John
     
  19. invert_nexus Ze do caixao Valued Senior Member

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    Neuron regrowth is a highly contentious area at the moment. Some studies indicate that new neurons are being created, while other indicate the opposite. Some studies indicate some limited creation of new neurons.

    In other words, stay tuned.

    Glial cells play a key role in guiding neural growth.
     
  20. superluminal I am MalcomR Valued Senior Member

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    Yep.
     
  21. nicholas1M7 Banned Banned

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    We are never the same person.

    Change is the only constant, no matter how small.

    There is a direct relationship between one's perception of reality, and one's physical energy.

    Greater energy results in greater perception. emc2

    Science, mathematics, and truth are tools that aid perception, but always fail without energy.

    Words are also tools that aid perception, but fail without energy.

    Energy is the beginning and end of matter.

    We are matter.
     
  22. Kron Maxwell's demon Registered Senior Member

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    I don't believe in concepts like the soul, or the inalienable self. We're all systems processing information in the end. We can be broken down into smaller systems, and combined to form larger ones.
     
  23. shakushinnen Registered Senior Member

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    Hi,
    I remember hearing once that it's hard define where a person's physical body begins and ends, because it is so inundated with mico-organisms, bacteria, etc. that are integral to it's operation, and without which we can not exist. Maybe there are some biolgical experts here that know more about this than I.
    John
     

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