Liquid Water Possibly Still on Mars!!!

Discussion in 'Astronomy, Exobiology, & Cosmology' started by Prince_James, Dec 7, 2006.

  1. jumpercable 6EQUJ5 'WOW' Registered Senior Member

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    Last edited: Mar 16, 2007
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  3. EndLightEnd This too shall pass. Registered Senior Member

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    Man I hope we find life elsewhere very soon. Humanity needs to know were not alone. Mainly the religious fundamentalists.
     
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  5. orcot Valued Senior Member

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    wow and the south pole region is generally deprived of water. So you can safley triple that numbre so you get at least + 33 metres of water. Porberly not enough to fill the northern (lower) hemisphere but it could fill the hellas basin.
     
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  7. URI IMU Registered Senior Member

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    >> any real reason to believe that the Earth got germed from afar

    yes
     
  8. darksidZz Valued Senior Member

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    If we find life in our own solar system then the religious nuts will be at a very bad spot. How could any of them possibly explain that an organism didn't just develop in another corner of the universe but also the next few worlds over! It would blow their minds rational (if they have that) and make them sad. I'd enjoy us finding some kinda of jellyfish being that was able to live on Earth, we could parade it around in a caged water tank and let everyone know it's an alien from Titan, etc. Imagine finding an animal that was like a monkey on some other planet, that'd be neat.

    I think the main thing here is this, in order to have complex life the ecosystem must be in place to support it. That means any world we do find must invariably contain other lifeforms or else how did the monkey/jellyfish come to survive?
     
  9. orcot Valued Senior Member

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    any planet that has a multitude of life must also be terraformed. Take earth for example it survived a collision with a mars size body that basicly made it a double planet. It was a hell hole altough it had liquid water oceans but lets face it so did Mars and Venus.
    It's the biggest heaviest planet in the solar system (drop all the rest of the solid planets and moons together and you still won't be able to form a second earth) it also had to most serious tidal forces for a planet for the entire solar system.
    And that's the one who actually produced life. I believe if we would find significant life, then we should somehow expect global transformations. Then again Mars is producing a whole lot of methane for a death planet to much perhaps
     
  10. Ophiolite Valued Senior Member

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    Your post has more errors and weird thinking than a meeting of the Flat Earth Society.
    This is an unwarranted assumption, even if we take a very broad definition of terraformed. Generally terraformed means making a planet like Earth is today. The Earth had a "multiplicity of life" two and a half billion years ago, yet was utterly unlike the present Earth.

    Your intention here is not clear. Do you mean double planet because it was now larger, or double planet because you count the moon? One is inclined to ask, so what? While there are some possibly crtical controls that the moon has exerted in the development of life on the Earth, their relevance to your point here is wholly obscure.
    Utter nonsense. Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus and Neptune are all larger and heavier. You then try to retrieve the situation by noting:
    Total, complete, irredeemable nonsense.
    Point 1:
    Mass of the Earth - 5.97 e24 kg
    Mass of the rest* - 6.44 e24 kg

    Point 2: The cores of the gas giants are believed to be comparable with the terrestrial planets. Thus:
    The interior of Jupiter is made up of a solid core of material similar to that of the Earth with a diameter of about 24,000 km.
    Source: http://www.nmm.ac.uk/server/show/conWebDoc.3696
    A vast ocean of liquid hydrogen may lie beneath the clouds, with a solid core probably 10 to 20 times as massive as Earth.
    Source: http://www.msu.edu/user/pilantpa/webquest/jupiter.htm
    Bewilderingly ambiguous. I don't know whether you meant it generated or experienced the most serious tidal forces, but both statements are faulty.
    Semantic content equals zero.
    Finally somethng that makes sense.
    Orcot, your posts are normally accurate and interesting. I can only assume that with this one you were taking the piss in a manner that is way to subtle for me to understand.
    * Mercury, Venus, Mars, the Galilean satellites and Titan.
     
  11. orcot Valued Senior Member

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    I'm sorry I didn't clarify a couple of things
    What I mean here basicly that if we could skip evolution and for example use a time machine to go back to earth when it was only 2 bilion years old then humans wouldn't be able to breath the air. I mean that the early lifeforms did some seriously tempering with earths atmosphere (changing CO2 to O2).
    I'm not saying however that life did this on purpose. I agree that it's a very broad term of terraforming but changing what is now believed a CO2, methane (CH4), carbon monoxide (CO), ammonia (NH3), free hydrogen and water vapor to a 21% oxygen (o2) and 78% nitrogen (n2) is a pretty drastic differnce (life can do this to a planet) I hope this is somewhat clearer

    I'm counting the moon as a double planet, yust for fun in this case, okay and why am I saying this:
    1 Mass difference the moon has 1.23% of the earth mass Nect comes Neptune that has a 0.02 ratio and that's because it's biggest moon is a wanderer catched like from the oort cloud and next to neptune comes Saturn with it's Titan with 0.0238% (Jup0.0207% Ura0.0115% (mars still has 0.0000...%)
    There is a big difference betwen 1.23% and 0.023% wouldn't you say
    2 Orbit the Moon travels in a ellips around the earth so unlike (all) big moons it's orbit isn't quit circular, it's orbit it also not round the equator granted all moons have a slight deriviation but mostly it's around the equator it's for this reason that uranos moons also show there poles to sun for years on a end. Our moon is the exeption it travels so that it's not in lign with earths equator... it's in line with the suns equator.
    So It might be against commen believe but argoung that the earth is a double planet is not a ID you could yust laugh away and it certainly has some defense points.
    (Don't worry it's actualy a moon because their is no clear defenition of a moon and if there was they would make it so that the moon is a moon)

    I apologise I ment the most heavy rock (silicate) planet Jup/Sat/Ur and Nep are gas giants I didn't count them for obvious reasons.

    Your math surprises me Okay I do it again
    Mass of the earth 5.97E24 kg (100%)
    Mass Venus 4.869E24 kg (81.4%)
    add Mars 6.42E23 kg is 5.5E24 (92.1%)
    Add Mercurius 3.3E23 is 5.83E24 (97.7%)
    Add our own moon 7.35E22 is 5.91E24 (98.9%)
    Now let's add the moon again to simulate the asteroid belt (this is exagerated the asteroid belt has less mass 5.98E24 thats 101% (never mind)
     
  12. orcot Valued Senior Member

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    Yes your right Earth is -E24 jupiter is -E27 so yes Jupiter has a 1000 times more mass most of it is hydrogen but their should be some silicates in there 5I didn't count them for the same reason why I didn't ad the weight of the silicates in the sun or cosmic dust)

    Actualy That's true Jupiter and the gasgiants experience relativly little tidal forces from their moons, and Io and Europa are moons so no planets. Actualy the earth is the only planet in the solar system to my knowing that's affected by tidal forces (the tides/slowing down rotation). So it's proberly true, perhaps it was irrelevant to mention sorry.

    We only have one proven example and a couple of maybe's (mars, europa, etc). Earth is obviously completly chanced you can tell that on the amount of craters visable for example okay that has also to do with the avaible water circulation but what are the chances that the earth would still have those without life and therefore a much denser Co2 layer while nitrates are getting stored underground?
    It's a theory not a fact.


    Oh yes concerning the Total mass if you would add all the planets together I didn't add the galilean moons and Titan Because their different composition(for example the 3 largest moons Ganymedes Titan and calisto have significant less gravity then the moon even though they have at least 2 times the lunar mass, but then again I don't have any objection against Io the only moon in the entire solar system that has more gravity then our own moon

    So that gives a 101.6% total... It's more then a 100% I agree

    Hope this made a bit more sence then the last post
     
  13. orcot Valued Senior Member

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    3,488
    Concerning the Methane in the martian atmosphere.

    The methane is being broken of so fast that it's actual in patches around the planet largly in 3 large area's some are prone to vulcanic activity some don't.

    The curren't theories are that they are either produced by vulcanic activity, life or a chemical proces that needs certain conditions not found on the martian surface but might be found deep underground.

    The theory that it's produced by vulcanic activity has been somewhat disproven (source2) because the methane is not accompanied with other vulcanic gasses like S02.

    It's definitly no proof of life but it's the most posible explanation at the moment.

    (somewhat in defense to former post methane is 23 times more potent as a greenhouse gas then Co2 so not a bad gas to terraform a frozen planet)

    source 1
    http://space.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn8256
     

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