Doesn't Anyone Notice The Erosion Of Our Freedoms?

Discussion in 'World Events' started by goofyfish, Oct 22, 2002.

  1. You Killed Jesus 14/88 Registered Senior Member

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    401
    However, it must be said that capitalism ruins the environment, and corrupts the government.

    Although social hierarchies would seem to be a good idea at this point, it would seem that under capitalism the "elite" seem to get greedy in a manner that is harmful to the environment and the state.

    Sorry, I just don't trust businessmen to take care of the planet.
     
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  3. Benji Registered Senior Member

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    Poor Brad i feel he is the only right winger on this forum, i understand his point though, we too have social rejects who choose to live off the work of others rather then get a job and earn thier money.

    On the same hand i aslo understand the importance of a democracy, but in reality we all know there is no such thing.
    The state dictates to us what we can and cant do, and it charges us for the pleasure of doing so.

    To get to the point, there aint a damm thing u can do about it, so take a big whiff because its gonna be here a lot longer then we will.
     
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  5. Avatar smoking revolver Valued Senior Member

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    19,083
    Vive l'Anarchy

    americans need one good ol revolution and make a democracy as it was in ancient Athens
    (a real democracy, the first democracy, and it really worked - \check google for details, I do not want to rewrite all my notes)
     
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  7. Asguard Kiss my dark side Valued Senior Member

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    so if you cant get a job even if your trying you should die?????

    great atitude people
     
  8. Avatar smoking revolver Valued Senior Member

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    19,083
    and if anyone has a job killing people, you still want to kill him

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    so much of a logic

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  9. incendiary Registered Senior Member

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    38
    Vive l'Anarchy
     
  10. John MacNeil Registered Senior Member

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    345
    The reason so many people are on welfare or sleeping on the pavement is because that is the way the corporate/government planned it so that they could better control the masses while reaping enormous profit. Their perfect win/win situation. When companies like NIKE set up shop in Indonesia and pay the workers two hours wages for a whole week's work, and then sell their shoes over here in America for $100.00 a pair, when they cost $1.48 to make, then that is slavery. The companies always give phony public relations jargon to the press about paying the workers more than they would have been making if NIKE wasn't there and insinuate that they are being fair to them by increasing their living standard. What they are really doing, as are all the corporations with their "Free Trade", is reducing the living standard for the majority of people in North America so that they can control them more effectivly. High on that reductionist agenda is reducing the power of unions. If the scumbags that are the corporate/government were interested in governing a just society, then that would be an easy society to create. All they would have to do is do what is right. They talk about that, but they never do it. The people who currently control government are the trash of history.
     
  11. Nasor Valued Senior Member

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    6,231
    So, remind me again...what freedoms have I lost? What was I free to do before George W. Bush and September 11 that I'm not free to do now?
     
  12. goofyfish Analog By Birth, Digital By Design Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,331
    Well, you could start your investigation by reading HR 3162.

    Unfortunately, an idea has taken hold amongst the populous that America is great because America is great and that America is and always will be free. Therefore, whatever conditions currently exist in America define freedom and we should be grateful for them. This explains why, when it is suggested that the American government is less than perfect, someone offers as refutation some variation of the following argument: "America is the best country ever. So, quit complaining and be grateful for what freedoms and luxuries you do enjoy."

    America is the greatest country in the world because it is the freest in the world. It is the freest in the world because it is the only nation in the world founded, not upon race or ethnicity, but upon an idea. That idea, the founding act of American government, is a declaration that whenever government becomes destructive to the ends of liberty it is the right and the duty of the people to alter or abolish it. In short, an American is defined as someone willing to defend freedom, even if it means abolishing the current governmental order.

    Today, as Americans wave Old Glory like little infants with flags in their fists, politicians are expanding the realm of government’s power; eroding away once-cherished bedrock freedoms

    It is more than O.K. to love your country and hate your government. It is the definition of an American. The American credo - that government is best which governs least – dictates that patriotic Americans continue to work to reduce the amount of power which governmental agents can exercise. When you criticize the American government and some fool with an American flag, sewn by child slaves in some far off land, condemns you for being unpatriotic, hold your head high. You are part of the true spirit of America.

    Peace.

    __________________
    Youth is the first victim of war - the first fruit of peace.
    It takes 20 years or more of peace to make a man;
    it takes only 20 seconds of war to destroy him.
    • -- King Boudewijn I, King of Belgium (1934-1993)
     
  13. Avatar smoking revolver Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    19,083
    by your definition Bush is also a true spirit of America and if that's so I think that I should fear from America as well as from Russia and China. They also have great Russian spirits and great Chinese spirits, but there is a border where nationalism grows into oppression and totalitarism
     
  14. goofyfish Analog By Birth, Digital By Design Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,331
    I've read it a couple times, and I don't get what you
    mean. Try again to get it through my dense cranium?

    Peace.
     
  15. Avatar smoking revolver Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    19,083
    nothing- forget it
    just fear tht patriotic americans will let their gorernment have too much power, then usa could become a police state and become another threat along with others to the free world

    but I'm just a citizen of a small country that has been invaded and invaded for the last 700 hundred years with only ~35 years of freedom (1918-1940...1991- present day) so it's natural for me to fear big countries and their games in the world arena and overreact on small things

    cheers
     
  16. Empty Dragon Empty Registered Senior Member

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    633
    Well I really don't think Bush is ultra-patriotic just that he uses the good hearted patriots to do his dirty work. All politics really are is learning to manipulate public opinion in such a way as to direct the mass to your desire. The problem that it is incredibly easy to do so. Since most people are quiet content being "lambs" (No biblical refernce intended). They believe the are being lead by shepherd when, in fact they may be being lead by the wolves themselves. What actual power would Bush or Sadam have if it where not for the people who follow them? If their soldiers desided not to fight, how would they wage war (Nukes not included). I find it sick that men will decieve the people so just as to profit from marching them off a cliff. How many people really want war? Who does it profit most? So why would a thinking mind follow? I agree they put up a good "protect the world from terrorists" argument but come on really? As soon as I saw how questionably Bush got into office a little light went off in my head. Have you ever noticed how simaliare the comment Bush and Sadam make? So why listen, why follow?
    Here I it sounds like I am talking demilitarisation, well mabye I am in a way but there will always be some one out there willing to manipulate people to so as to control. I belive the key to peace is education, not the regurgateded "do what your told" bull shit they teach you in school now a days. But true learning, what life teaches you, what you learn from other and most importantly what you learn yourself. With a strong sense of self-being (that a word?) what reasons do you have for violence? Granted not all are peacefull people and some may even find purpose in Violence. That was once me. I learned it was an emtpy path, "Violent men meet violent ends". Life is a gift. It can be so beautiful so why would we let others change it to match the hatred they hold inside? Do the wises men on the planet understand the ultimate...most likely not and even if they did it would only apply to them. Question every thing and live life true to yourself. You can comprimise with many things but do you really want to comprimise who you are for anything?
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2002
  17. goofyfish Analog By Birth, Digital By Design Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,331
    In case The Patriot Act was too much for you to wade through, here are a few highlights:
    • You've lost your freedom of association. The federal government can now monitor the doings of religious and political organizations, even if there's no reason to suspect that illegal activity is going on.
    • You've lost your freedom from unreasonable searches. The federal government may search and seize your papers and effects without probable cause and without a court warrant. It can also question librarians and booksellers about your reading habits, and threaten them with jail if they reveal to anyone that you're being investigated.
    • You've lost your right to a speedy and public trial. The federal government can now jail you indefinitely without your being charged with a crime and can so without holding a trial and without allowing you to confront your accusers. This is what you can expect if you are deemed to be a "terrorist" or are deemed to be "assisting a terrorist group." The definition of "terrorist" and "terrorist group" is purely up to the government, of course.
    • You've lost your right to legal representation. Conversations between attorneys and clients can now be monitored in federal prisons. That is, if you're fortunate enough to have an attorney. The federal government now has the right to deny you legal representation too.
    In short, the federal government can arrest virtually anyone it deems to be a danger to national security, even without a formal criminal charge, and jail them indefinitely. It can deny you a lawyer or even a trial, public or secret. And all of this can happen without your family or friends and relatives ever knowing what happened.

    Peace.

    __________________
    Youth is the first victim of war - the first fruit of peace.
    It takes 20 years or more of peace to make a man;
    it takes only 20 seconds of war to destroy him.
    • -- King Boudewijn I, King of Belgium (1934-1993)
     
  18. unbalanced Banned Banned

    Messages:
    137
    That IS Right

    When the FEDERAL RESERVE took over america,the government declared a national emergency,and the emergency was never lifted,since 1933,the constitution has been rendered nul and void,it became just a piece of paper.
    The old guys remember when this happened,but it was lost in history kinda,nobody ever went out of their way to make sure you learned this in school,because the schools are run by the government.The fact has been buried for many reasons,but right now I think the biggest problem is that the government hasn't gotten enough of our guns away yet,they are still outnumbered by US.
    The new world order is here,but the greatest enemy of the nwo is people with weapons who will fight it,so this nwo is being presented very gradually,along with some choice coverage by the media on the problems with firearms in america,we are in deep sheeat here in america,and it is gonna get a lot deeper.
    -the FED is not a branch of the US govt
    -The IRS is a branch of the FED
    -The legal system literally thinks you're guilty until proven innocent
    -the legal system is intentionally made unattainable for the poor
    -the NWO doesn't like christians
    -the NWO doesn't like negroes
    -the american govt has been systematically robbing americans of their rights and their riches.
    THIS IS HOW IT REALLY IS!!!!!
     
  19. jjhlk Guest

    "If we don't look at the past, we are doomed to repeat it."

    "...it is the only nation in the world founded, not upon race or ethnicity, but upon an idea."

    I'm pretty sure that Lincoln came in riding on a negroe to sign that declaration

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    j/k

    American's would be foolish to accept all the crap that Bush is trying to force feed them.

    How did Hitler get so much power in Germany?
    "President" Hindenburg was in power at the time. He didn't really trust Hitler, which is why he didn't give him power earlier. But as he aged, his judgement got a little poor. Supposedly, people kept telling him how great Hitler was, and he was near to death so he made Hitler chancellor of Germany. I think Chancellor means president, someone help me out here.

    Hitler was now in power. He was very popular with the people and had a "cult of personallity" about him (maybe not at first though, it sure showed later on). One day, somebody burnt down the Reichstag, the Germany Parliment. Hitler declared a state of emergency and had the Enabling Act passed. Now he had a dictatorship for 4 years. It's easy to outlaw other parties with absolute power. Also, communists were imprisoned, any enemy of the state I'm sure...

    And so Hitler began building his radical Nazi Germany.

    Bush is the true enemy of communism.

    [EDIT: Oh, and for you democrats as well

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  20. Avatar smoking revolver Valued Senior Member

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    Chancellor is not a president- he is the person who has most power in Germany. Germany is not a presidential state
     
  21. Northwind Master of Anvils Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    306
    Re: People like me?!!

    Hate to break it to you, *** but the guy flipping burgers at MacDonalds is making a greater contribution to society than you. I cannot even imagine a lower form of occupation than engineer. Compared to people like you, a garbage man is a prince, and a janitor the cream of society. Engineers are nbothing more than glorified ditch-diggers, and not even very good at that. Your contribution to the world is negligible.


    * Moderator edit
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 3, 2002

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