Confederate Flag Ban at School

Discussion in 'History' started by Orleander, Aug 14, 2008.

  1. Simon Anders Valued Senior Member

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    I don't think you are entirely wrong, but partly wrong. The flag also means fuck non-whites to many people. It was also the flag flown over and army that was defending slavery. It was certainly not the only issue in the war, but it was part of the fight.
     
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  3. Norsefire Salam Shalom Salom Registered Senior Member

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    It was the union that were hypocrites. The South had every right to break away.
     
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  5. Orleander OH JOY!!!! Valued Senior Member

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    The North got rich on textiles woven in their factories using child labour. Textiles made of Southern cotton picked by slaves.

    I still don't see a huge difference between a confederate flag and a swastika flag. People try and say the swastika was Hindu and was blah blah blah.

    Eventually will the Nazi flag lose its emotional meaning as well and just become historical? Will people start to wear it to show German pride?
     
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  7. Norsefire Salam Shalom Salom Registered Senior Member

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    The Confederacy didn't commit genocide
     
  8. HumanBeast Registered Member

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    Northeners had some plantations and they loved making money off the rum in the Southern plantations. A golden moment of hypocracy.
     
  9. Simon Anders Valued Senior Member

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    No but they did directly and indirectly kill millions via the slave trade and they wanted to continue. Are you saying the North committed genocide?
     
  10. Simon Anders Valued Senior Member

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    Even if what you just wrote makes any sense, the North being bad does not make the Confederate flag good.
     
  11. Norsefire Salam Shalom Salom Registered Senior Member

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    The North were hypocritical.
     
  12. MacGyver1968 Fixin' Shit that Ain't Broke Valued Senior Member

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    Don't get me wrong...I'm not defending men owning men. It was just part of the economy of the day. The south was mainly an agricultural society that needed lots of manual labor. At that time, the most cost effective way to have a large workforce was to use slave labor. Southerners had large investments made in their slave labor workforce. To up and lose this, meant financial ruin. The civil war was all about money. The flag was the symbol of good old- fashioned capatialism.

    Let's use a modern day analogy:

    What if you owned a large business, and decided to pay your workers in a different way. Instead of paying your workers a weekly or bi-weekly salary, you decided to pay your workers 5 years pay, up front....and the worker signs an extensive contract, promising he won't quit during those 5 years. If they do, then they have to forfeit some of the pay.

    So your plan works well for a few years, you know your payroll expenses are paid in full for the next 5 years...and your employees get a big chuck of change.

    Then the Government passes a law, voiding your employee contracts...allowing all your employees to just skate with money. Wouldn't you be pissed?


    There are many redneck, douchbag, toothless, living in a trailer, racist motherfuckers that still live in the south that have embraced the Confederate flag as their symbol. It's these assholes that have given the flag it's current state of political incorrectness.

    Hate the racists assholes...not the flag.

    Slight offtopic question:
    For you Brits out there...when did y'all outlaw slavery? I know it was way before the US. Didn't y'all have a different system called "indentured servitude"? Where the commit to work was based on a debt, not ownership. I wonder why the US didn't adopt a system like this...since we are an English colony?
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2008
  13. John99 Banned Banned

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    These symbols are part of history. Even the Swastika has a history far beyond the Nazi party. I just dont understand getting angry about a symbol because the symbol could have been anything.

    What if, using the Nazi party again, their symols was a a plain red background. Would you ban everything wotyh a plain red background. Strange.
     
  14. desi Valued Senior Member

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    How does what a bunch of dead white fellows did hundreds of years ago make the stars and bars bad? Its like the swastika. The symbol is not bad. They symbol never harmed one single person. If you want to go burning flags you should start with the hammer and thresher or China's flag. It was under those banners that more people were killed than anywhere else in world history. Yet the Chinese flag is held high as we speak.
     
  15. Simon Anders Valued Senior Member

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    Well, if you want to make the case that it is neither good nor bad then the whole argument for flying it or wearing it seems moot. A good number of people will take the flag as a communication, perhaps a racist message. And they will be correct in many cases. If it is neither good nor bad, then let the damn thing go. Who cares in that case? But everyone who wants to fly it is 'proud to be a southerner' or whatever, meaning they think it is good. If they open the door to the flag having a value, we can damn well come back with the fact that that value is negative.
     
  16. Simon Anders Valued Senior Member

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    Sure, I essentially agree. But then many people made their living without resorting to having slaves, so it was unfair competition and well, downright evil. The flag in part will always be taken as support for those ideas and for many that is part of the message.

    I don't hate the flag. It seems like there could be some other way to feel unity and southern culture without using the flag. I don't think this issue is 100% clear. But I see no compelling reason to use the flag. Make something else.

    Oh, the US had it. It's one of those facts that is left out of the high school text books. It was a horrible existence for many and a rather high % died before they worked their full time of service. It was better than slavery for most, but still could be rather horrible and deadly.
     
  17. Simon Anders Valued Senior Member

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    Sure. I doubt the main reason the powers that be went to war were concern for the African slaves. But even if the North was hypocritical it is good that slavery was outlawed and the Norths' behavior does not make the confederate flag OK.
     
  18. angrybellsprout paultard since 2002 Registered Senior Member

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    Tell that to the blacks who owned slaves.

    Then again it was the USA who had slavery legal before, during and after the war.
     
  19. lepustimidus Banned Banned

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    Orleander:
    Do you think they care about some idiot's opinion?

    Being suspended 40 times is in no way an indication that you don't know history.

    But just for shits and giggles, what about the good ole star spangled banner? Didn't the Americans fly that when they were killing the Native Americans and forcing them onto reservations? What about in Vietnam, when the soldiers united under the star spangled banner to napalm the country, scorching millions of innocent Vietnamese citizens, literally charring the flesh and muscle from their bones? And then the bombardment of Cambodia, despite it being a neutral country.

    Numerous atrocities have been committed under the American flag, and this holds true for many other countries. It's the height of hypocrisy for retards to target the Confederate Flag for censorship, especially when it was the Northerners who didn't want any niggers on their territory. Lincoln tried to deport the blacks out of the U.S.A three times.
     
  20. angrybellsprout paultard since 2002 Registered Senior Member

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    Defending slavery?

    That is a pretty hard thing for you to defend, especially considering the fact that nobody in the 1850s or in 1860 was trying to abolish slavery. There were arguments about the spread of slavery west, but that is hardly the same thing as abolishing slavery.

    I also guess that by defending slavery you are talking about the Constitutional amendment pushed by Lincoln that would have made slavery a protected institution?

    All in all it is looking more and more like you are just some twat who doesn't have a clue as to what they are talking about.
     
  21. angrybellsprout paultard since 2002 Registered Senior Member

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    Too bad the international slave trade had been abolished decades earlier, else you might have had a point.
     
  22. angrybellsprout paultard since 2002 Registered Senior Member

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    The north only had factory towns, who wouldn't want to have been in one of those?
     
  23. Buffalo Roam Registered Senior Member

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    The facts of the War are not that clear, and Blacks served the Confederacy willingly, and with Honor and Dignity.


    Again I have the question of, if the Battle Flag is such horrible a icon, why do Blacks that I know personally, and who are Quite Proud of their fore Fathers, who served in the Confederate Forces, display the Battle Flag and honor Confederate Memorial Day, by placing the Battle Flag on the graves of their Great Great Grand Fathers..

    People know little about them, but in 1861, noted black abolitionist Frederick Douglass said, "There are many colored men in the Confederate Army as real soldiers, having muskets on their shoulders, bullets in their pockets, ready to shoot down loyal troops and doing all that soldiers may do to destroy the Federal government."

    F. Douglass used this fact as rational for the enlistment of Blacks into the Union Army, and their deployment as combat troops.

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    Confederate soldier Anthony T. Welters is pictured in this late 1800's portrait. Welters is one of at least two African American Confederate soldiers buried at San Lorenzo Cemetery in St. Augustine.

    John Masters of St. Augustine, a retired U.S. Army colonel with combat service in World War II, Korea and Vietnam, has documented 9,000 Confederate graves in Florida. Only six of them are known to be black, he said, because most records of the time did not list race.

    Many blacks who fought for the Confederacy drew pensions for their service after the war. Arkansas, the only state which identified these individuals by race, documented 278 blacks who received such pensions.
     

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