All his statements seem correct to the point, so what's the problem

Could you quote a news report that indicates he questioned the validity of the Holocaust and Nazi death camps? There have been a zillion discussions on how many native Americans died by the hands of colonialists and what the means were. I think he is right to say that the holocaust should not have a speshul status as compared to say, the cannibalism of US POWs by the Japanese. Or do you think anyone asking questions about torture in Abu Ghraib is indulging in torture denial?

 

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and this is from someone who blames the holocaust entirely on the jews. ill bet SAM is a secret Iranian. she even supported an iranian takeover over iraq when the US pull out.

 

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This is from the people who keep Holocaust survivors on a pittance while wheezing about Holocaust denial and appropriating financial compensation for their suffering.

Puh-leese.

 

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your lecturing morality to others? :roflmao:

especially after all those disgusting things you said on jews and holocaust victims? :roflmao:

go back to the pit you came from.

 

1) that wasn't the point - the point was that you were apparently confusing the reporter's assertions about former AJ speech with the actual AJ assertions in the speech of the OP - as if you were unable to even comprehend chuush's actual assertions,in the OP, or deal with the actual speech made by AJ,

or even distinguish 'what AJ said in this speech' (the stuff chuush agreed with) from 'what some reporter said AJ said another time' (which chuush had not introduced as a topic).

2) I claim you have never seen an actual, legitimately translated quote by AJ in which he says the Holocaust never happened, or denies the existence of the Nazi death camps, or anything like that. You can easily prove me wrong, by showing me one.

AJ has never denied the reality of the Holocaust, the Nazi death camps, the Nazi persecution of the Jews, and so forth.

I leave it to you to explain what you have seen reported in the US media. The major original source of the "Holocaust is a myth" garbage has already been documented, by me and others, several times, on this forum, and unless my memory plays me false you were present in those threads.

 

I thought he spoke very well and ,even for a religious guy seems to have more "Reason" in his thoughts than many western leaders.

The Holocaust, is irrelevant to why the Jews were moved into Palestine. That is irrelevant. If it WAS, like he said, then they should have a piece of Germany to live in as a country all their own.

The central argument needs to be, the British, backed by western allies decided to put them there. Yes of course the decision was HEAVILY influenced by Zionists and their allies. They had been spoiling for that territory since it was relieved from the Ottomans in WWI. That's when the JEWS SHOULD HAVE MOVED THERE AND COULD HAVE PEACEFULLY COEXISTED WITH THE PALISTINIANS, AFTER THE EXODUS OF OTTOMAN POWERSTRUCTURE.

But it wasn't. "The West" and I use that term loosely, decided to do it after WWII, because so many Jews were displaced and READY TO MOVE.

What the president of Iran needs to understand is he is up against all the western nations that made that happen. He cannot change history, he needs to deal with the here and now, which he refuses to do.

 

Pretty much like the Indians refused to deal with the colonisation of their country, even after 200 years. How would you deal with the colonisation of yours by a foreign power?

 

chuuush has in the past linked to a site denying the holocaust, and i think has denied it himself.

 

SAM listen to me, I am more reasonable than nearly any westerner on this. It's not the same.

The reality is, there is a LOT more Jews per capita there now, than even trying to compare Brits to Indians back in 45'.

The reality is, that trying to displace them peacefully WILL NOT HAPPEN. THat means it must be done VIA war.

So...if you are calling for the Jews to leave and that is your only solution then it is WAR you are talking about. If it is WAR your are talking about, you must understand that the west, for good or bad, made that decision and will stand by it rather than let them get wiped out.

Because the Indians managed to get independence, fairly peacefully, does not mean it is an option for Palestinians. Whom really do have independence(in their territory). That relegates this to nothing more than a land grab spat.

 

No one is doing that.

Removal of Israeli soldiers and settlements from Palestinian land is not an option ?

Establishment of borders for Israel, which Israel must remain within or face UN sanction, is not an option ?

The people of Palestine have no possibility, not even an option, of governing their own country with a government chosen by themselves ?

 

So what, in your opinion, should Palestinians do about the Jews who are coming there everyday from abroad, even today?

About the ever increasing Jewish settlements?

About the land, water, oil and other resources that Israelis are stealing from them?

About the military attacking civilians in daily insurgencies? The bulldozing of homes and orchards? The uprooting of thousand year old trees?

About their elected parliament in Israeli prisons?

About the 10,000 plus Palestinian men, women and children in Israeli prisons?

About the fact that they have no freedom to move about, into or out of their land due to Israeli occupation and restrictions?

About the fact that Israel controls access to food, water and healthcare and uses it as a weapon to control their desire for freedom?

About American arming, funding and support for all of the above [including vetos to prevent accountability in the UN]?

What is your suggestion?

 

That may be true but it's not how the rest of the world talks. And when you're addressing the rest of the world it's helpful to approach them on a level they'll understand.

CNN actually changed the news ticker about 10 minutes into the speech to read "Ahmadinejad gives theological lecture at UN" because there was nothing else to report. First time I laughed about something on CNN in months.

 

1) Who makes a claim has no effect what so ever on if that claim is true or false, exp: if Ahmadinejad said 2+2=4 does that mean 2+2 does not equal 4?

2) If you agree with a claim made by someone else, it does not mean you agree with everything that someone else claims. Exp: if Ahmadinejad said 2+2=4 and you agree does then mean you agree with Ahmadinejad that the holocaust is a lie?

 

The agenda behind Western Media disinformation.

An example of the realities and distortions in real time.

Does Iran's President want Israel wiped off the map?

And the unbiased MEMRI translation.

And the reason he betokens the removal of the regime/s is simple, and legitimate.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article12790.htm

The US/Israeli governments and western Media have engineered the perception that whatever Ahmadinejad says is tainted, hence the displays of ignorance in this thread. In reality, his oration is honest, reasonable and speaks out against the injustice that exists in the ME. And of course it is voiced in a Middle Eastern perspective.

 

Did you also laugh when Condi Rice said the bombing of Lebanese civilians was the birth pangs of the Middle East?

When I hear an American giving a speech in Arabic to Arabs with Hamdullillah and Subhanallah I'll take your nonsense seriously. He was talking in his own language and you cannot tell me how I should express myself in my own language.

 

Sorry, but I have SERIOUS doubts about what you're saying here. And no, your memory is false - I've never participated in ANY discussion here on that subject.

 

Well let me ask you then, do people in the Middle East take Condi Rice seriously when she talks like that? Do you think people in the West take Ahmadinejad seriously when he gives a theological lecture at the UN?

 

You mean do they take her seriously when she says that the bombing is birth pangs of the middle east? You bet. Their kids are really dying.

The same people who are occupying several countries and supporting the occupation of Palestine by Israel? Those hypocrites? They kill people to pad their bank accounts, so clearly their idea of integrity is different from ours.

 

Don't try to convolute the issue. I'm not interesting in argueing about bombings in Lebanon, or Palestine or Isreal.

I'm talking about cultural differences, and knowing how to overcome your own culture when you're addressing another. People in the West aren't interested in hearing a theological sermon at the UN General Assembly any more than people in the Middle East are interested in hearing Condi's spin on Lebanon.

 

Yeah, they are only interested in themselves mostly. Everyone else must accommodate them or be killed. Even in their own homes. You won't find that attitude in other places, people actually take the trouble to find out what you might mean. I bet the hoopla over Ahmedinejads mistranslated statements has been 1000000X greater than Condi's real ones.