The end of Ralph Nader?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Bells, Nov 6, 2008.

  1. John99 Banned Banned

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  3. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

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    Nader is really putting his foot or entire leg into his mouth when he makes comments like that. Although he does have some interesting takes on a few problems overall he really isn't much of an asset to anyone but himself. Sorry he has changed his ways so much over the years for he never acted like this before.:shrug:
     
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  5. John99 Banned Banned

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    He IS African American, he IS VERY smart and he IS the President.
     
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  7. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

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    Nadars problem is he thinks he right, one should always question their beliefs and be willing to compromise to get things done. Nadar does not compromise, only his vision for america is right and any deviation is hersay and means someone is sucking the big cock of the evil corporations... in short he a crank, and though is talk may sound appealing to liberals is nothing but purified trolling.
     
  8. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Who said anything about university education? I have university education too, but I'm not trying to appear white, am I?
     
  9. Kadark Banned Banned

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    Of course he would have, because he was a communist.

    Get with it ...


    Kadark
     
  10. Texas Bob Registered Senior Member

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    Or perhaps they will go the Vince Foster route and make sure he commits suicide while somehow not leaving any fingerprints on the gun without wearing any gloves.

    It is also likely that files will be missing from his office that will mysteriously be found under the stairs in the White House about the time the statute of limitations on whatever it is that he has on Obama ends

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  11. ashura the Old Right Registered Senior Member

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    Absolutely ridiculous. Most of the time the way people act has less to do with their race and more to do with the environment they grew up in. You're wrongly assuming that because he's of a certain color, he's meant to act in a certain way.
     
  12. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    He may not do it consciously, but he was brought up by a white mother and a white grandmother. I'm saying it would take a white black man to win this race. A black black man would lose it. I hope I am wrong - after all, I never expected Americans would elect him, white as he is.

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  13. ashura the Old Right Registered Senior Member

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    Still assuming though. I know plenty of blacks from the both the south and the NE (now that I think about it, I've never met a midwestern or west coast black person) who were raised by black families that act what you would call "white." Hell, under your microscope I'd probably be a white brown guy. :shrug:
     
  14. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    So you think Obama represents the black people of America? I don't think so. He's a cosmopolitan East Coast white guy who just happens to have dark skin.
     
  15. ashura the Old Right Registered Senior Member

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    My point is that we shouldn't be sitting here trying to neatly categorize everything into race. Obama acts like Obama, he happened to be brought up by whites, he happens to be black. That shouldn't be taken as anything other than what it is. Otherwise, we're still going to be stuck with these artificial personality categories for years to come. Should I start thinking of myself as white? Can't cosmopolitan East Coast blacks think of themselves as black?
     
  16. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    Love the fake outrage from Fox News. Nader makes a good point, and I think his choice of words was deliberately provocative but not necessarily racist.
     
  17. Balerion Banned Banned

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    He's not an East Coast guy, Sam, let alone an East Coast white guy. He's from Chicago, the upper-Midwest.

    Nader's language was stupid, but some of his points were fair.
     
  18. Texas Bob Registered Senior Member

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    I find it interesting that we have a divisive term to define when a black person is deemed to "act white" or be "acting white". Hummm...I think I am going to contact Webster's with this addition to their dictionary

    To act white (or acting white) - common slang term used to define a black man or woman who is not wearing gang colors and saying "yo-yo homie, step off my turf or I'll put a cap in yo ass, now gets out my way...I's watching for the mail man to bring my food stamps so I's can buy me's some watermelon and fried chicken".

    Perhaps they are not "acting white" but just not acting like they are from the hood? The whole things seems just a tad stereotypical to me :shrug:
     
  19. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    It's not the worst gaffe on the planet

    FOX News saw an opportunity. They're nothing if they're not sharp. Smith saw an opportunity, in the wake of Obama's victory, to go after someone he doesn't particularly like. Someone, somewhere, was going to ask the question, and while it certainly is questionable whether Nader should have been that person, it's hardly a death knell for his career.

    Go back and listen to Shep Smith. Not only is he exaggerating the point, he's also playing this solemn, reverent, righteous role that looks about as natural on him as Tinkerbell panties and a bonnet.

    Think about it this way: Nader exposed himself in a manner that just about anyone can take some degree of offense to. Why should we let a known propaganda hack like Shep Smith set the tone for how we perceive and consider the issue? If I had just heard that quote at random, even knowing it came from Nader, I would have laughed and forgotten about it.

    Though we may not like the phrasing of the issue, the question is on everyone's mind. Desi asks if Obama supporters will "hate" him when he fails to deliver. Carcano asks the same about blacks.

    Inevitably, some will sink to hatred. Others will be "merely" frustrated. Others still will shake their heads sadly, recognizing that above all, first and foremost, Barack Obama is a politician. After all, we saw him play the game to beat the Clinton machine. We saw him build a political organization and execute a campaign of the highest caliber. He withstood everything his opponents threw at him, and that in itself was impressive enough that his supporters haven't worried too much about the fact that he was at least as vague as any other politician. The great difference was that he was more artful about ducking specific points.

    As I wrote back in July, those who expect a savior will be disappointed:

    [It] seems a better proposition that Obama should choose the fine-tuning route. The challenge, though, will be to avoid the trap that Clinton’s rightward roll fell squarely into. Certainly, some paths Obama might follow will seem dramatic: bury the FISA reform, burn the Patriot Act, pursue new energy production and distribution infrastructure, end farm subsidies, and apply a more subtle and finessed theory about our diplomatic habits. In the end, though, these will not produce any fundamental ideological change like Reagan did. In the first place, it is a lot easier to inject ignorance and superstition into a culture than to exorcise such demons. And, to the other, Obama’s pursuit would be to revive familiar, if largely dormant, principles of liberty and justice, brotherhood, and compassion that brought this nation such prestige ....

    .... The challenges facing the next president do not make fertile ground for fundamental change. Certainly, in the litany of woes facing Americans we might find the seeds to germinate amid the rot, but therein lies part of the choice. If, as critics claim, a McCain presidency would merely continue Bush policies, such fundamental change might become necessary in order to save the republic, but that route would be an awfully risky gamble played for incredibly high stakes. Obama, in claiming change, begs the question of what kind of change Americans want. But the question of how much change we can, as a nation, handle seems nearly moot. We will celebrate each drop of dignity restored to the political process even though our thirst remains. We will cheer a changing trend in energy costs even though we cannot realistically expect great declines. And we will sleep more comfortably by a smarter approach to terrorism and foreign policy even though threats and confounding obstacles still remain. If we expect in Obama a messiah of the American Dream, we will be sorely disappointed. If we propose the beginnings of a recovery, and significant progress in the rehabilitation of our nation, we can at least greet each new day with hope, and hold our president to a realistic, attainable standard.

    This is not surrender. We cannot achieve our every ideal in the next four years. But we would be so much worse off if we somehow forgot them. We can only hide in disillusionment for so long before an inescapable reality presents itself. Let us then accept what we must, change what we can, and keep close to our hearts the wisdom to recognize that even at our idyllic best, there is only so much we can accomplish at once.

    Even then we could see the politician. David Brooks called him "'Fast Eddie' Obama", and anyone who is not yet aware of that part of his character has not been paying attention. Which of the two sharply-contrasted personas will win out in the end? Uncle Sam or Uncle Tom? The question is rude in its expression, to be sure. But it is also apt in its core inquiry.

    Ralph Nader is seventy-four years old. If anything is ending his political career, it's his age. There's not much more he can do, so maybe he just doesn't care anymore. After all, even Tim Goodman, the television critic for the San Francisco Chronicle, is jumping on Shepard Smith's bandwagon. As one who has repeatedly expressed over the years that it's not just what you say but how you say it, I think it's interesting that Nader's critics in this are criticizing something he didn't actually say. That doesn't mean it wasn't a completely stupid thing to say, but those of us who would claim to know better any other day of any other year should not be sinking to FOX News' hyper-righteous bullshit just because it's convenient.

    If President-elect Obama wanted to respond to this issue, he could easily do so by pointing out that Nader should be old enough to recall a former meaning of Uncle Tom, that of the faithful servant. Indeed, the bonds of a former age are broken, and as President, Barack Obama certainly has the opportunity to define himself as a proper American servant. To stand beside a symbol of former injustice, to serve family and community in a trying hour—in truth, there is not much greater we could ask of him. The enduring question at this time is to wonder what part of America will he serve, which only leads us back to Nader's actual point.
    ____________________

    Notes:

    Brooks, David. "The Two Obamas". New York Times. June 20, 2008. http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/20/opinion/20brooks.html

    Goodman, Tim. "Ralph Nader calls Obama 'Uncle Tom' and Fox News calls him out". The Bastard Machine. November 5, 2008. http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/sfgate/detail?blogid=24&entry_id=32372
     
  20. Balerion Banned Banned

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    I'm not letting Shep Smith formulate my opinion of Nader's comments. I was more outraged at Smith than at Nader, to be honest. He has no integrity, and it showed in that interview, where he was more concerned with looking good for the camera, and reminding Nader that he was irrelevant. That's not news, that's spin. That's garbage.
     
  21. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Barely. How many South Siders have lived his life?

    I think the words he used made his point more accurately than anything else would. I'm not PC myself, so I've never seen the point in anyone being PC.
     
  22. DiamondHearts Registered Senior Member

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    Nader is 100% right. There is no denying the fact that both the Democratic and Republican parties have become essentially ruled by corporate interests. That is the fatal flaw of your system.

    He started as a consumer advocate, and he is still one. Consumers are too dumb to understand that Nader has the best for them in mind.

    For those calling Ralph Nader a racist, he has done more for African Americans than Barack Obama ever has. Shame on FOX and shame on those who agree with them.
     
  23. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

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    Name me these cooperate interest that control them, that on every single issue these interest tell them what to do?

    Of course Nader has the best in mind, best in mind does not mean its fair or correct though: Hitlar has the best in mind of Germany, Bush has the best in mind for the middle east and the USA.

    I would not call Nader a racists, but what has Nader done specifically for black people?
     

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