Hmm, teenage drivers have much, MUCH higher rates of accidents ..which put far, far more drivers at risk ........yet we don't persecute them like we do the drinking drivers. Why not? See? There's something else going on here. and I think I know what it is ......MADD propaganda!! That's all it is ....MADD has drummed it into us to the point that we think it's actually true! and some of y'all are defending it tooth and nail, yet you can't give me the RATE of drinking driver accidnets. Baron Max
Are you really asking me this? The question is how many deadly accidents are there caused by drunks. And the truth is that there are 25,000 alcohol-related traffic deaths per year. One out of every two Americans is expected to be in an alcohol-related traffic accident in their lifetime. Drunk driving accidents kill people at a greater rate than non-alcohol-related accidents do. That's why. Again, because drunk drivers are impaired. They are putting everyone else at risk by not being in full control. Your reflexes are something like 10 times slower when you're drunk. How is this even a question, Baron? Are you that stupid? We'd rather pick on drunk drivers because being drunk is an impairment. Teens are not impaired, they're just young. Now, if you want to argue that the driving age limit should be higher, I'm with you. But it's not their fault they suck at driving. A drunk, however, can simply be a functional driver by not drinking. Don't pretend you know math. Drunk driving deaths account for 32% of all road fatalities. But that is down from 60% in 1982. It's gone down almost uniformly since then, thanks to increases in drunk driving laws. I believe it's still the number one cause, but even if it isn't, it's only because of the laws we have in place today. Just out of curiosity...care to provide any stat whatsoever that says teenagers account for more traffic accidents than drunks? In 1982, drunk drivers were responsible for 60% of all traffic deaths. It is now 32%. Still a huge number, far higher than teenagers, if I'm not mistaken.
Hmm, do you have anything to back up that assertion? I'm inclined to believe that it isn't true, so....... Any data? Any studies? Baron Max
Okay. How many deadly accidents are caused by non-drinking drivers per year? Okay. How many Americans are expected to be in NON-alcohol-related traffic accidents in their lifetime? Is that right? Can you prove that with statistics? That's also true of many different things that people do while driving ...putting on makeup, reading the paper, arguing with people in the car, eating lunch, drinking coffee, reaching for the streetmap, ....., the list goes on and on. Well, Dawg, if you're worried about deaths in auto accidents, then you sure as hell shouldn't let teens drive! They kill many, many more people than drunks by a loooooooong sight! So, see, you're not really concerned about the deaths, are you? Nope, you're just using those deaths to persecute drinkers. And again, you haven't furnished the RATE of accidents by drinkers as COMPARED to the RATE of accidents by non-drinkers. I'm suggesting that it's not much different ...which suggests that drinkers or non-drinkers get into accidents at about the same rate. Thus, .....the drinking isn't the cause! Baron Max
It's rather funny to watch Baron Max run rings around posters, with those posters offering up useless statistics which actually support Baron Max's arguments, instead of just posting the rate of fatalities for drunk vs. non-drunk drivers. I mean: Implies that 68% of all road fatalities are caused by non-drunk drivers. From memory, 'alcohol' and 'speed' combined still only account for a minority of fatalities. It's usually a driving error (failing to look in mirrors/head checks, not judging a speed correctly, not judging distances correctly) that is responsible for crashes and fatalities.
There is a built-in bias in the death statistics when the fault in the crash is always assigned to the drunk driver involved. Another bias is when police lie about someone being drunk, and yet another is when they assume that alcohol caused an impairment that caused the accident. Teachers used to try to teach people better logic than that.
Nope, and it's definitely unfair to the drinkers in life. Baron Max PS - if you were trying to say something else, you didn't post it properly, did you? Some of those comments weren't mine, yet you posted them as my comments. Pretty sneaky of you, huh?
That's not the point. You can't segregate them into "alcohol" and "non-alcohol", because the "non-alcohol" category consists of like a dozen different primary causes. Doesn't matter. Not so. The people who are distracting themselves still have all of their motor skills. Of course they should be prosecuted for their involvement in such accidents, but it's harder to prove the crime in those cases. Do you have any numbers to support that? How many DWI's do you have, out of curiosity? :bugeye: I've given you numbers to show that before many of the laws were enacted, drunk drivers accounted for nearly 70% of the road fatalities in this country. You've obviously decided to ignore those facts, so I'm not going to bother anymore. You've been given all the information you asked for, and you've summarily ignored it, likely because you're an alcoholic with a revoked license. That's my hunch, anyway.
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Ah, more drunks to join the fray. Its just bias. Other things cause accidents. I can take strong CNS depressants and drive.
And I'm sure that we could dig up similar justifications for the persecution of other social misfits ....such as those pesky Christians in Rome; those nasty Vikings attacking England; those horrible witches of Salem; those nasty black slaves from Africa; those meek Chinese in early California; those damned Mexicans who tried to steal back the land that Americans stole from them; those nasty Muslims who keep blowing people and pouring acid on innocent faces; those pesky, demanding gays; ....., well, you get the picture. If there's some group that a particular society wants to persecute, well, golly, we can find tons of perfectly good justification for it written by "scholars" and "scientists". Baron Max
No, I'm comparing the PERSECUTION of drunks to the PERSECUTION of those that I listed ...and there are more such persecutions all through human history. Baron Max
Yes, you're comparing the plight of folks who knew the rules and who could have easily called a fucking cab, to the plight of faithful folks who were murdered for what they believed. How apt.
They were killed for what they believed, they were killed because of their religious ACTIONS. If they'd kept their fuckin' mouths shut about their beliefs, no one would have persecuted them. As to get a cab? Why should he? He was perfectly able to drive the car himself. And, see, I'm all for punishing the drunk who gets into accidents. But I'm NOT ever going to be in favor of punishing someone for what they MIGHT do. That's just plain wrong. Baron Max
The point is that he wasn't perfectly able to drive the car himself. It's been demonstrated that your reflex are up to 10 times slower when intoxicated. That is not being "perfectly able" to drive. You're more likely to put others at risk when you are drunk. And again, the only reason drunks don't still account for 80% of the on-road deaths like they used is because of the laws that have been put in place (and finally enforced) since then. Without these laws, we'd still have 75-85% of all on-road deaths being attributed to drunks. So the law actually works. If you had actually done some research on the subject rather than getting drunk and ranting, maybe you'd see that too.
So when a person is "more likely" to be in an accident, we should arrest them and throw them into prison? Say, anyone who is "likely" to become enraged on the road, we should just grab 'em up and throw 'em into jail? I don't know why you can't see that you're backing and advocating laws that are based on what a person MIGHT do. Would support any and all laws that are designed to jail someone for what they MIGHT do at some future date? I like your take on "laws that work". It's interesting to contemplate. Let's say we just arrest all gang members for what they MIGHT do ....I'll bet that the incident of gang-related violence would drop to almost zilch. Would you back such a law? We could really have fun creating those laws, huh? Laws designed to prevent things from happening in the future by just examining people to check their mental attitudes and such. If they don't pass, throw 'em into prison BEFORE they cause those future problems. Yep, I like it. Baron Max
