Live Baby thrown in Garbage at Abortion Clinic

Discussion in 'Ethics, Morality, & Justice' started by madanthonywayne, Feb 6, 2009.

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  1. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    Obviously survival for such a young foetus is extremely rare. As the woman was seeking an abortion, it would make no sense to expend any effort to keep this thing alive.
     
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  3. Orleander OH JOY!!!! Valued Senior Member

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    was the abortion botched or was the disposal of the remains botched?
     
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  5. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    Everything

    It would seem that the whole thing was botched. Procedure, outcome, disposal.
     
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  7. q0101 Registered Senior Member

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    I couldn’t care less about the life of a 23 week old fetus. The doctor shouldn’t have lost his license, and I think that women should have the legal right to kill their child within a short period of time after giving birth. (Perhaps 72 – 168 hours)
     
  8. visceral_instinct Monkey see, monkey denigrate Valued Senior Member

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    She should have microwaved it to eat, not thrown it in the garbage.
     
  9. Orleander OH JOY!!!! Valued Senior Member

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    wouldn't trying to save the fetus be like sending an ambulance to an botched execution?
     
  10. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    Ew. There's a really fucked up Japanese movie along those lines.
     
  11. Orleander OH JOY!!!! Valued Senior Member

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    are you crazy!?

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  12. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Is that what you think most abortion clinics are like? Why?

    Is this a question directed at sciforums members, or at the person in the news story?

    Is a program or a bunch of genes a sentient thing?

    If you bring two dogs together to breed them, then later change your mind, is it ok to kill the puppies?

    How do these women just "get pregnant"? It's amazing that no men seem ever to be involved.
     
  13. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    Must be something in the air

    I recall encountering an article once, in an anthropology class, that asserted a connection between the recognition of the male role in reproduction and the decline of matriarchal culture. More relevant, though, it included a note that there was still an aboriginal culture in Australia that believed the wind brought babies to women.

    Maybe they're onto something.
     
  14. shorty_37 Go! Canada Go! Registered Senior Member

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    You do huh? :bugeye: Sounds like you are just trying to get a rise out of ppl here with a stupid statement like that.

    As a mother I can't even wrap my mind around stories like these. I mean if you are irresponsible and get pregnant "by accident" they have such things as the morning after pill.
    I guess when you do something long enough, it doesn't phase you as much anymore. Even so when it comes to a human life, I could never get used to it.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2009
  15. madanthonywayne Morning in America Registered Senior Member

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    Their business, their job, is to end pregnancies which means killing the fetus. It's what they do every day. Do you think they view the fetuses they're killing as human; or as tissue masses to be disposed of? How long could you keep that job if you considered the fetus to be a baby? How much further down the scale do you think your evaluation of the fetus slides after many years of killing them?
    It was directed at OneRaven in particular. I doubt the person from the story is a member of SciForums.....
     
  16. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

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    not to be an asshole but technically if you are going to discard a biological entity isn't always considered a biohazard?
     
  17. shorty_37 Go! Canada Go! Registered Senior Member

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    A little off topic here but imagine this. My friend who works at the hospital a couple yrs ago told me this one. One of the cleaning ladies was trying to get into one of the public washrooms but the door was locked (from the inside) They called for whoever was in there to open it, but nobody did. She went to get security and when she came back there was a woman leaving the washroom. The security approached her and the cleaning lady went in to find a bloody mess and her baby in the garbage can. The woman had the baby there by herself then threw the baby in the trash and was just going to walk away. They called the police and the children's aid society right away. How the fuck could someone do something like that? I mean if you don't want the baby, put it up for adoption not in a garbage can.

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  18. q0101 Registered Senior Member

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    What is your definition of the word crazy? It’s all subjective. Maybe I am crazy. Or maybe you’re the one that’s crazy, and I’m just a sane person in an insane world. What is the difference between a woman that has a late term abortion, and a woman that kills her child immediately after she gives birth? I am not one of the many people that believes human life is a precious gift that was given to us by god or the universe. The killing of another human being is usually an illogical act. And that is the only reason why I believe that murder is wrong is most circumstances. If you read some of my previous posts pertaining to ethics, morality and justice, you should know that I have unusual opinions about the topics. There are some people here that believe I’m a sociopath, but I prefer to think of myself as a person that chooses not to embrace the beliefs, customs, and traditions of a semi-civilized / self-destructive race. I can’t have any faith in a social system that is mostly based on chemical illusions. I would have faith in a society that is a product of mathematics, but I don’t think that is ever going to happen.

    I don’t believe in the common concept of good and evil. I believe in actions and reactions. I believe in logic and probability. Your perception of ethics, morality and justice is purely subjective. Why is the killing of a new born child wrong? It is only wrong if you believe it is wrong. Would you believe it is wrong if women didn’t have large quantities of oxytocin flowing through their bloodstream after giving birth? I believe that murder is only wrong if it is illogical. There are many things to consider before you can come to that conclusion. Is there a better option other than murder? Will the physical act affect you in a negative way? Will it affect others in a negative way? What is your probability of being punished for the physical act?

    I believe that women should have the legal right to kill their child immediately after giving birth because is highly unlikely that anyone other than the mother and perhaps the father would have had time to form an emotional attachment with the child. It all depends on the situation. I am sure that you heard stories about young women that killed their child immediately after giving birth. Some of these women were overweight teenagers that managed to hide their pregnancy from their parents and friends. Some of them were drug addicts. There is one consistency in most of these stories. No one cared about the life of the unborn child. I also have a problem with the idea of people bringing unwanted children into the world. In some cases giving up an unwanted child for adoption could be worse than killing it immediately after it is born. What sounds worse to you? The killing of a 5 minute old infant, or a child that is abused and neglected by various foster parents. Sure, there is a chance that the child could also be abused and neglected by its biological parents, but statistics have shown that is more likely to happen if the child is raised by foster parents.
     
  19. madanthonywayne Morning in America Registered Senior Member

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    Wow. Could you elaborate a bit there? So, if some dude sleeps with my wife and I would like him to stop, is it logical for me to kill him? If I see a feeble old person with a large sum of money and I need a large sum of money, is it logical for me to kill said old person and take his money? If Hitler hated Jews, couldn't stand the sight of them, would it be logical for him to commit genocide?
     
  20. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    I think that, on the whole, they are acutely aware that the foetuses are human and are potential babies.

    I suppose that some people take the interests of the mothers to be significant as well. Fancy that. How strange.
     
  21. q0101 Registered Senior Member

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    If you could accurately determine that there is a 95% chance that you would not be punished for your crimes, then I would say that it could be logical. It all depends on your risk – reward ratio. There are many things to consider. What are you going to do with the money? How much money do you stand to make? What is your current net worth? Do you have a college education? Where and when is the crime being committed? What is the worst punishment that you could receive for the crime? Is there an easy way to take the money from the man without killing him? What is the best way to commit the crime without getting caught? Do you know the man personally? And the list goes on.

    Objectively, I would have to say that killing a person is neither right nor wrong. It is just a physical act. It is no different than opening or closing a door. Your subjective experience gives the act meaning. Killing a man that was having sex with your wife could be perceived as logical if you had no long-term goals beyond having your revenge and killing yourself. Killing a large group of people that you don’t like could also be perceived as a logical solution to your problem, but you would have to be willing to live with the consequences. Hitler’s logic was definitely flawed if living a long happy life was a part of his agenda. Any person that wants to have a long happy life would be better off following the golden rule. Do onto others as you would have them do onto to you. You could say that killing an innocent person is ethically wrong, but it is only illogical if there is a high probability that the act will affect the murderer in a negative way. Life is all about actions and reactions, and every time that a person commits a violent act they are increasing the probability of experiencing some kind of negative reaction.
     
  22. draqon Banned Banned

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    Well abortion is legal. And humans inside women are killed. The name of these humans are changed, we call them fetuses. But they are nevertheless killed. The women walk away from the clinic to the rest of their life, not to jail. So why can't the same women decide the fate of their babies once they are out of their uterus? Why can't they kill the human baby once it is out in the air when they can kill the human baby inside them?

    I dont see the difference. If you are giving the right to kill than do so.
     
  23. Enmos Valued Senior Member

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    You are fine with killing animals.
     
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