evolution just a word?

Discussion in 'General Science & Technology' started by vhawk, May 26, 2009.

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  1. West_Virginia Registered Member

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    Give me 2 of whatever you're smoking.

    What exactly do you mean by "the current 'laws of physics' can't define that "progression" at the molecular scale"?

    That sounds very ignorant. Give examples.
     
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  3. baftan ******* Valued Senior Member

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    Look at a person when he or she was six years old. And compare it with his or her appearance, knowledge, habits, behaviour when this person is fourtysix years old. Is it a marginal change? It depends on your understanding of "marginal". Some can say "This person is still human with certain number and distribution of organs, etc." while some others would claim that too much change have occured, so we can talk about a marginal change. One thing everyone would agree is the change. One part of the evolution works that way: If you could continuously follow a species for -let's say- 5 million year period, you could barely see the difference. But if you look at two points only (5 million years ago and now) you couldn't talk about one species but two. Such as our actual appearence and the possible appearance of our ancestor who lived 5 million years. We can estimate that from fossil remains.
    Other side of the evolution is that not everything change according to same pace. There are certain bacterias or animal species which have little or no change within same period of time -let's say 5 million years again-. Because simply they did not need too. Evolution process and environmental conditions (where evolution performs its acts) favour some species at certain time while wiping out some others.
    This is related with genetic mutation rates and conditions of object species. Today scientist are putting fruit flies under various tests and observing mutations of their genes. That is to say, it is possible to watch fundemental -or marginal- changes with naked eye.
     
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  5. West_Virginia Registered Member

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    marginal- of questionable or minimal quality

    wordnetweb.princeton .edu/perl/webwn?s=marginal

    What the hell is with the word in this thread??
     
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  7. Bishadi Banned Banned

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    2,745
    your not up to it

    nose too high in the clouds

    sounds to me like you have NEVER actually covered even a simple analysis of how a stupid 'proton pump' or 'cation pump' is described at the mathematical scale.

    you run over that material, then describe it mathematically (try gibbs or green function) perhaps go fechbach or even stochastic for your system.

    When you cover can convey in them terms, then you could understand why i made the statement.

    Life: abuses entropy!

    (look up each word, then ask your question)
     
  8. West_Virginia Registered Member

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    1. Learn english please before making a piss poor argument.

    2. Learn how to correctly state facts and relevant scientific information before sounding like a hopelessly uneducated individual.

    3. You don't have a strong grasp of simple concepts, which is understandable for your intelligence level.

    en.wikipedia .org/wiki/Entropy_and_life

    4. Learn to use google.

    oh god......you're an idiot
    .... although life's dynamics may be argued to go against the tendency of second law, which states that the entropy of an isolated system tends to increase, it does not in any way conflict or invalidate this law, because the principle that entropy can only increase or remain constant applies only to a closed system which is adiabatically isolated, meaning no heat can enter or leave. Whenever a system can exchange either heat or matter with its environment, an entropy decrease of that system is entirely compatible with the second law.

    Bringing up active transport in an evolution debate.....it's pointless to argue with you I know but....you know it would be laughable if it wasn't sad.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2009
  9. Bishadi Banned Banned

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    2,745
    "life" itself as the energy upon mass (light) is your unequivocal proof.

    the mechanism for how that exists is just now being understood in 'solitons' ..'excitons' (a state of energy)

    as for evolution

    in human terms 'sickel cell anemia' is an evolutionary benefit in which malaria cannot reproduce (the hemoglobin is of 3 structure versus the 4 of a normal (2 a and 2 b) the heme are not capturing the same amount of oxygen and creates a biased stress on the hemoglobin structures that become rigid (sickle); this 'evolutionary' benefit saves many lives.

    or the platypus is a winner!

    Evolution of knowledge in itself is a winner! It can be said we have more material knowledge available today, then in all of the combined periods in time, ever.

    "we the people' can use the internet and nothing will stop us!

    I often wonder why the religious never noticed it was Darwin who drew the best rendition of the 'tree of life' in which we all are from the ONE.

    most religions are theories

    don't be so hard on them

    as soon as you realize you MUST breath oxygen, then you will awaken to realize you are not separate from existence.

    Your proof of life's evolution is that you are alive; question anything that suggests otherwise!

    i say this, in that you are of the light of your fathers/mothers and they from theirs; in you is all of them fathers since the beginning of time alive as you stand; try not to dishonor them with being so ignorant!
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2009
  10. Bishadi Banned Banned

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    2,745
    you are out of your league

    can you tell me why planck incorporated entropy into 'h' ?

    if not then you are not even capable of conversation

    perhaps if you understood what evolution meant in itself, you would realize random is not an option; ie.... to you eat sh't by accident? No!

    Life is purposed to continue.

    The law was incorrectly incorporated into physics. Life is the PROOF!

    It is why, they can send rockets to the moon and still not comprehend what causes a gene to fold or what holds the plug of a nucleus.

    You have no idea how much is misunderstood all because of the very ignorance of guys like you who live on wiki versus read actual publications.

    here try some of my tools

    http://xxx.lanl.gov/abs/physics/0512033


    http://xxx.lanl.gov/find/physics/1/au: Yurovsky_V/0/1/0/all/0/1


    read a bit before squaring up with what you really do not understand

    if you want help i can assist

    but you wil tone down a bit or don't ask
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2009
  11. West_Virginia Registered Member

    Messages:
    12
    You're asking me...if I know...what a planck constant is....

    WOW.

    Educate yourself. No offense, but you like to pull together fancy words you've heard used in a book somewhere and without further explaining the inner workings of such complex theories, claim you're right.

    Here is a good starting point for anyone else interested in knowing about entrophy and planck. BASIC stuff.

    mathpages .com/home/kmath551/kmath551.htm
     
  12. vhawk Registered Member

    Messages:
    101
    marginal- of questionable or minimal quality

    wordnetweb.princeton .edu/perl/webwn?s=marginal

    What the hell is with the word in this thread??

    someone let an idiot contribute to a dictionary any fool knows that marginal means at the fringe or edge or gradual,
     
  13. baftan ******* Valued Senior Member

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    1,135
    As you can analyse in this thread, the dictionary meaning of any word is just a reference to the meaning of the word. People can understand a particular word in many different ways, giving it different meanings under different context.
    You, as a thread starter, did not clarify what do you mean when you say "marginal". Give an example, so people can compare evolution with your margin.
     
  14. vhawk Registered Member

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    101
    in actual fact, the world marginal crept in toan exchangebetween myselfand the estimable spider goat,someone else chose to pick up on the word marginal.
    Now I'm just guessing here, but I am going to assume that most of the contributors to this forum. American and accordingly suffer the disadvantage of an American education. To an Englishman with a reasonably extensive education, marginal is not a word that causes any difficulty. An example of its use can be found in the phrase marginal cost, so I respectfully suggest that anyone who does not understand the word marginal. Google marginal cost, and then they will get a rough idea what it actually means
    it seems silly to me to get hung up on the meaning of one little word
     
  15. baftan ******* Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,135
    "google marginal cost"?
    Marginal cost is an economic terminology and even if you google marginal cost you would end up millions of opinions. I recommend you google the word of "marginal" yourself you Englishman and let us hope you will find one universally accepted definition of the word.
    Hey Englishman, you first explain yourself why do you call your country as follows:
    - Great Britain
    - Britain
    - England
    - United Kingdom

    Don't stop there, explain yourself what do you understand from "MPs" and "expenses" and "robbery"...
    I am not an American by the way.
     
  16. vhawk Registered Member

    Messages:
    101
    you get millions of opinions on any subject, there is no absolute meaning of any word, the meaning of words is contingent largely on context, most educated people easily understand marginal and only a moron would think it meant dubious
    and FYI I live in England(whose language you attempt to speak) which is a country, Great Britain has a geographical meaning and United Kingdom a political meaning, it being the union of 3 distinct countries
     
  17. baftan ******* Valued Senior Member

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    1,135
    Which one do you keep out Northern Ireland, Wales or Scotland? Or maybe you keep England out. Because I thought it was 4 countries. Do you count Bahamas within the UK or is it just a part of the Commonwealth? You are an educated person, knowing the unique meaning of the words, but you can not explain what "do you" understand from the word, while we morons are arguing about scope of the meanings. Good for you.
     
  18. vhawk Registered Member

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    101
    Ulster is not a country like Wales or Scotland and Eire is not part of the UK which Ulster is, I grant you
     
  19. Bishadi Banned Banned

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    2,745
    again West virgin...... your reading comprehension is slow.

    I asked if you knew the "WHY" of plancks inclusion of entropy to h.

    H is the core quantum unit of energy (hence the constant was created)

    but i guess you wouldn't know that cuz you can't even comprehend a weeee little post on a forum.

    let alone comprehend the implications of what evolution is at a scale of applicability into math.

    sorry fooll............ you got the wrong guy

    here is planck's paper (1901) in english, with the math; perhaps try reading a bit before making a fool of yourself

    http://www.chemteam.info/Chem-History/Planck-1901/Planck-1901.html

    i will leave the basics up but to understand it is often best to read directly from the scientists works directly

    forget what people believe; learn how to comprehend the material yourselves.

    Walking the Planck is the greatest error in all of todays sciences!
     
  20. Bishadi Banned Banned

    Messages:
    2,745
    as for the marginal comprehension that evolution is real, all anyone has to do is be complacent and accept others opinions over following their own integrity

    then of course evolution is just a word, to some
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2009
  21. Bishadi Banned Banned

    Messages:
    2,745
    rereading and didn't see this

    not really as all life must consume to continue (entangled to our environment and existence itself)

    the progression is the evolution; perhaps our (mankinds) definitions are not pure but to observe what 'is' (nature, knowledge, even the religions themselves) then it is easy to observe a progression of the very life of the cause.

    Now that 'cause' is what 'we the people' are trying to define and that is easy to see as knowledge and comprehension has 'progressed.'

    we are learning by trial and error; evolving within our own knowledge and created styles of observing existence.

    (we are like rocks that think about what we are and write it down for the next generations to learn from the previous (words transcend time))
    and just think, many on this globe smite the man for something he did not even do.

    He gave of his time to share a pattern he saw and has been cursed for hundreds of years for it. But reality is HE LIVES in his gift to us all and we will all forget the fool who created the fibs

    here is something to read
    http://www2.truman.edu/~rgraber/cultev/spencer.html

    The subconscious aspect is the argument between truth and belief.

    You know life evolves but it conflicts your belief. That damage is across the world to the biased, based on beliefs that are often rudely incorporated with 'bad' intent. (ie... isolation from truth)

    The true contributors all were of the intent to 'seek truth' and give back what has been learned. Them afterwards are who damaged the understanding by oppressing any intent to seek what has 'evolved'.

    Think of God as the alpha and omega, the beginning and ending; Existence as a whole, itself, and we live within existence in a slot in time yet still a part of the whole.

    Then evolution is HIS way and all can be understood by following the nature of life. (think of all of mankinds knowledge combined as HIS knowledge)

    These are rules that evolved from knowledge. They may seem esoteric but use your own mind to measure them:

    Good: supports life to continue

    Bad: loss to the common.

    Them are choices we as rocks have and can use knowledge to comprehend before making a choice (causing an action to exist).

    comprehending the word evolution should be the greatest gift anyone could give to a child; your next generation that has evolved from the previous

    what word is EVOLUTION?

    one of the best, thank God for the revealing of that one eh?

    (sorry about the ramble but i was 'rockin')
     
  22. vhawk Registered Member

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    101
    marginal as I , perhaps only I understand it means at the edges or margins and in te context of evolution means gradual, or little bylittle, much as it means in economics and marginal cost, so it is something that changes with slight adjustments elswhereor elsewhen
    if anyone could show me a monkey with a nearly manlike brain, just popping up suddenly the n I might be wholly and unreservedly convinced by the theory of evolution as applied to humans, it strikes me that some aspects of being human are not acquired gradually. for example self -consciousness, but in fairness for all I know monkeys debate philosophy endlessly also I have seen animals behave apparently logically, not that logic defines humanity
     
  23. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    54,036
    A new trait popping up suddenly without a precursor would tend to invalidate the Theory of Evolution, not reinforce it.
     
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