God's authorship self evident???

No, you're fighting ghosts. I am neither erecting strawmen, nor did I respond to what you wrote, because neither was my intention. To be honest, I'm starting to get the feeling that we're running (mostly) tangential arguments.

There is one thing I'll clarify though. It DOES make a difference whether you're in the matrix or not. People who try to dodge bullets or fly through force of will on Earth tend to generally end up dead or in nuthouses. People who think that physical laws don't exist and that they can live without eating kill themselves. People who spend their lives looking for "agents" are usually dubbed crazy. The only way it can totally not matter if we're in the matrix or not, is if there's NO overlap between the two. Which I never said, of course.

Furthermore, the Matrix is just an analogy. What I was trying to point out is that people believe things which are practical. So it's not practical to run around looking for "agents" because real life does not require any such thing. But there are other assumptions you make too. For example, if you have any money in the bank, you assume that armageddon will not happen tomorrow. Hell, if you've got a savings account somewhere, you're assuming that you're not going to get hit by a bus today on your way home or die in your sleep. If you're married, you assume your wife is faithful to you and isn't just marrying you for your money (well, I hope for your sake we can assume that).

My point is that none of these things can be "proven." There may be some evidence for some of them to some degree (my wife has never given me reason to believe she is unfaithful, so most likely she isn't), but sometimes there's really no way to know. Let me put it this way: Do you want President Obama to start investing billions of your tax dollars on a contingency plan labeled "In case of alien attack?"

In fact, the refusal to believe anything except that which is concrete is often manifested as paranoia, and is considered a mental disorder.


Lots of people claim they don't make any faith-based assumptions about the universe. Clearly, however, practicality does and should trump the possibilities that I mentioned. People SHOULD assume lots of things in order so that they can live comfortably. But that doesn't change the fact that we all (humans in general) regularly discard ideas which are inconvenient. By discard, I don't even mean logically discard. People ASSUME, without thinking lots of things. My point is, there's a difference between what we SAY we believe and what we actually believe. Even if people SAY they accept the possibility of, say, an alien attack, nobody really goes through life expecting one.

 

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No it doesn't:

For the simple reason that no-one (except the nutters) will try it (or genuine Neos of course). In other words the vast majority of people accept it at face value (as they did the films).

No, there's a difference between "believing" and "accepting as operable".

Correct: which is not "faith" nor is it "belief" of the religious kind: it's an unquestioning (usually) that today will be much as yesterday.

Agreed: but they do not require faith to use the assumption.
In fact if you didn't you'd end going mad anyway in all likelihood.

 

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This is too circular for me. We're both using different definitions of "faith" and "belief" and this argument is going to take us nowhere so long as it continues, so I'm going to say that if we use your definition then, yes, everything you said is true.

In any case, I've reposted my link. Same password and everything. Have fun:
http://www.4shared.com/account/dir/18296364/49f11f08/sharing.html?rnd=88

 

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Hmm, okay: just got your document.
And your last few words make it evident there's no point even bothering to refute your "proof".

BUT (always a but isn't there?) I definitely take issue with this:

So you think atheists don't do something with their lives? Don't do anything good? That belief in god is required to feed the beggar on the road? To do something noble?

You're right, there's no point arguing with you at all.

Instead I'll simply extend my sympathy to you and hope you learn something along the way.

 

There is a reply to this in the correct thread.

 

-=-

This is the correct thread.

 

How do you know it wasn't written by Satan?

 

If you've read the thing, you'd know the answer to that.

 

Read it a couple times. Looks to be written by Satan to me. Prove it wasn't please.

The main character seems about as evil as they come. Vindictive, jealous, petty, holds a grudge, advocates rape, genocide, and the lingering torture of others. Vainglorious, cruel, advocates stoning you kids for the flimsiest of excuses, tortures the innocent, and pretty much is bug-eye jumping up and down batshit crazy.

He really sounds like Satan to me and the book is full of lies.

So prove Satan didn't write it.

 

“ Originally Posted by StrangerInAStrangeLa
I cannot believe something which has no evidence. I have no choice. ”

You are a fool if you think you know better about me than I do.

 

Not if 80% of humanity disagreed wit the Book's message.

Not if 80% just did not want to face the daunting reality that God is.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

What's daunting about the reality of a god?

 

Come now Snakelord

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You know already. Why ask?


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

I'm asking because I am unaware of what the answer is. If we could possibly put smiley faces aside for a moment and just answer the question - well, needless to say, it would be handy.

What is daunting about the reality of a god, (I suppose that depends upon what version of god it is but for arguments sake we'll use the judaeo-christian god).

 

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Well for the sake of others. But then again most people who have contemplated the existence of God "judaeo-christian" God have touched on these conclusions and do not need to be told but for some who may never have contemplated the existence of the "judaeo-christian" God here goes:

If God, the "judaeo-christian" God exists, Then there exists an intelligence, a being ( i am not sure i can say being probably Spirit would be better) who is superior to humanity beyond measure.

That meaning that there is an intelligent Spirit in existence that humanity can never become the equal of, That is a tier above all Created beings (humanity being a created being). Whose will determines the eternal destiny of each individual. Who's Will is paramount and cannot be changed through the thoughts desires and actions of men.

That there is an intelligent Spirit who makes us powerless, to whom we are at the mercy of His will towards us. Contemplating a God like that brings an individual to the point of contemplating that they are totally powerless in relation to such a God.

That’s why so many people try to relate to God as if they where talking about a super advanced Alien being. Someone Superior in development but nether the less within the universe and given time within our ability to develop into to become the equal of.

But the "judaeo-christian" God is not like an super advanced Alien. He is totally a complete tier above that Super advanced alien. like us that Super advanced alien can never become the Equal of the "judaeo-christian" God. He is just a created being forever set below the "judaeo-christian" God. He is just as powerless as we are in changing the Will of the "judaeo-christian" God.

A lot of people might fear a Super advanced alien and it's will towards us. They may have visions of what happened when the technologically more advanced Spanish Conquistadors came into contact with the Aztecs but that is nothing compared to the fear that can be caused when one contemplates the "judaeo-christian" God coming into contact with us.

Fear of absolute powerlessness causes many to run away from thinking about the possibility of there being a "judaeo-christian" God. The very thought must be resisted because it takes away their independence it forever makes them into a lesser being. One who is dependant of the will of another forever.


All Praise The Ancient of Days

 

Ok - I take this to mean that there exists an intelligence, (e.g Einstein) who is superior to lesser intelligence (e.g Bob the idiot) and hence... [some conclusion here].

The same of course is going to relate not only to intelligence but to power and presence. The latter is questionable in that I think it is a superior position to not be in your toilet but each to their own. I would question the overall statement here - if there is one - because having greater or, to use your words, "superior" ability - doesn't actually say anything beyond them having greater ability.

You've got me at a loss now. Man cannot possibly change the desires of this god entity whos whill determines everything. Where then comes 'free will' - which expresses the ability of an individual to do something that nobody else need will to happen?

Ok, accepted for the sake of discussion. There are probably many instances in life of beings to whom you are at the complete mercy of. Ok, struggling is an ability that you do have, (whether gods or people), but ultimately you are completely powerless against them. What is your point?

Ok, that's accepted. What is the point?

Apologies, I don't understand. God - your god, the judaeo-christian god, is a god of perfect love. "Fear" is a non-concept.

Which - if you'll excuse me - is daft considering it is the christian that considers an existence of no-god as the worthless, powerless, pointless existence. It is only with this god that we as humans have worth, have power, have point.

I'd disagree and so would you - unless you're claiming that by being certain that this god exists, you're no longer independant and are somehow forever made into a "lesser being", (which seems to go against biblical teaching)? Apologies but I just don't see it. There is - to me at least - nothing daunting about the existence of a god, (other than the poop factor), but more a rather distinct happiness that it doesn't matter if I get cancer or not. Oh, how that would free the emotional state.

(with respect to this I must confess that I probably wouldn't continue to masturbate, have sex or do poops because these things are personal matters not open to audience. Having said that, this isn't a god issue - I'd be the same if you showed me that ghosts or invisible aliens existed as well). I wouldn't exactly call it fear, just not wanting to poop in front of someone else, (free will I guess).

 

wouldn't you think that IF pictures of smokers' lungs were printed on cigarette packs all over the world, say the most gruesome and ugly pictures imaginable on planet earth, smokers of ALL cultures, ALL times, ALL walks of life would stop smoking?


my point?

when a pigeon closes it's eye it doesn't mean the cat has disappeared.

just because something is 100%(not even 80%) right or wrong, and just because 100% of the people can see it so, doesn't mean 100% of people will follow it. this forum is a good example of that

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.

 

No, they wouldn't.

Closing your eyes doesn't make something appear.

You certainly prove that.

 

I think if god wrote a book he would not wait 100 years after the stuff happened( supposedly) to wright it. Do you know how inaccurate that makes it?
Think about how much you know about Andrew Jackson now write his book.

 

does that change the fact that smoking has been proven beyond doubt to be harmful and deadly?