Fascism - the forgotten ideal

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Norsefire, Aug 6, 2009.

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  1. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Hitler said he would establish a Third Reich that would last 1000 years. He came up about 988 years short of that.
     
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  3. Norsefire Salam Shalom Salom Registered Senior Member

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    That isn't what I meant. Obviously he didn't do that because he lost the war; I'm talking about when he was in power, his policies. He did everything he was going to do.


    And Mussolini created jobs, provided healthcare, education, created stability, created the Fascist total state, had state-run recreational centers, everything.

    The thing is, fascism is intolerant in many ways, but it is civilized in my opinion, and even progressive. Nazi Germany (not truly a fascist state, because of its racism and emphasis on the working class) was leaps and bounds ahead of its contempararies
     
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  5. Norsefire Salam Shalom Salom Registered Senior Member

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    No, not nonsense; he created numerous programs to help the German Aryan people.

    Please look at this in a way where you set your prejudices aside; Hitler did honestly care about Germany.

    "Dictator" simply means supreme leader, which he was, der Fuhrer; however he was a dictator that cared about Germany, unlike the countless passionless, corrupt, incompetent dictators and monarchs that history has seen

    The world war was his only mistake; he shouldn't have started it, at least, not so soon.

    People that society does not desire. In Hitler's views, they were Jews, etc, and he thought it best for Germany to eliminate them.

    Though let's not discuss Hitler too much; I'm talking about Fascism in general, not Hitler.
     
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  7. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    We've already established that your definition of "progressive" is essentially fascism, so that's a meaningless circular statement.
     
  8. Norsefire Salam Shalom Salom Registered Senior Member

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    James, and yours is some other ideology. Progress is relative.

    Back on topic, I'm more interested in discussing Mussolini than in discussing Hitler, since Mussolini, unlike Hitler, did not discriminate on the basis of race and made many accomplishments, which I listed in the OP.
     
  9. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    He did not.

    He did not, for example, make the trains run on time - that had been accomplished by the government he replaced, which had done the hard work of rebuilding Italy after WWI, and he merely took credit.

    Kudos capture is typical of fascist governance - gratitude as an ethical obligation, credit where credit is due, is foreign to that ideology.

    The train item is so widely familiar by now that it is used casually in arguments without reference, like this: http://c4ss.org/content/324
     
  10. Norsefire Salam Shalom Salom Registered Senior Member

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    Mussolini revised the transport system, and his other accompolishments stand firm.

    Perhaps he had advisors to help him, but my point is the FASCISTS are the ones that made those accompolishments.
     
  11. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    He did not "revise" the train system - others did that, before him, and he lied and took credit.

    Similarly with his other "accomplishments" - fascists are good at propaganda, but they devote the resources of their states to military aggression - robbery and conquest enriches and empowers the corporate elites more easily and more directly than complicated, boring, slow progress through competent governance.
     
  12. Norsefire Salam Shalom Salom Registered Senior Member

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    Did you read my OP? It was after Fascists took office that new jobs were created, new centers open, new government programs added, etc
     
  13. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    Competing with the socialists, and making a good effort.

    Came up a little short, there, in the end, compared with (say) France, or Sweden. The blackshirts needed appeasing. And tyrants tend to megalomania - empire beckoned, and fascists are never deaf to that call.
     
  14. Norsefire Salam Shalom Salom Registered Senior Member

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    Hitler was not a tyrant. See, yes, there are corrupt, crony dictators and leaders, especially like Mugabe and those sort.

    However Hitler was not just a leader, but a philosopher; Hitler was passionate about his ideology, about the success and realization of his ideology, and not about giving this or that to his crony friends, etc

    Remember, Hitler was a political prisoner in his early years, and he wrote Mein Kampf while inside; Hitler was dedicated, and a man of integrity.

    As for Fascism, Italian Fascism was much more of a success than socialism. The only reason fascism died was because they lost the war, but under Fascism, Italy did very well, and there were public services, and national 'pride', and attention to the working class, and class collaberation.
     
  15. Cowboy My Aim Is True Valued Senior Member

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    Fascism sucks, as do all other forms of nanny-statism.
     
  16. Cowboy My Aim Is True Valued Senior Member

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    Sounds a lot like what is advocated by American liberals. :shrug:
     
  17. hypewaders Save Changes Registered Senior Member

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    Norsefire: "Hitler was not a tyrant... Hitler was not just a leader, but a philosopher... dedicated, and a man of integrity."

    This statement (like your thesis in this thread) is patent nonsense; much too ignorant of calamity to merit any serious rebuttal; insulting to the memory of Hitler's myriad victims; complete cesspool material at Sciforums.

    If you would sickly enjoy further attention on this subject, I suggest you hold forth at a neo-Nazi message board. There, you can defend the Führer's legacy in an environment far more forgiving of deep ignorance and inhumanity. This isn't the place. If you keep peddling nazi fascism here, you'll soon become an unwelcome crackpot, which would be a shame: You've made thought-provoking contributions in the past, but in this thread you're putting out unredeemable garbage. Khalas.
     
  18. Norsefire Salam Shalom Salom Registered Senior Member

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    Except fascists have the stomach and desire to get it done at all costs

    It is a truthful statement.

    It is a betrayal of your own open-mindednesss to deny it, and to dismiss the man simply because you don't like him. I'm not asking you to like him; I probably don't like him either. Nonetheless, I give credit where credit is due, and Hitler was brilliant, dedicated, passionate, and a man of integrity. Ruthless, perhaps, and fanatical, but honest and dedicated, unlike the scumbag politicians of today.
     
  19. Johnnycake Registered Member

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    Norse, what has made you such a robot to what the left is marching us toward? I hope Americans wake up from this sleepwalk into fascism. You care more about this utopian dream of yours, than the people you're supposed to love. It's rather startling to me that our president is appointing people over us who think a lot like you.
     
  20. Norsefire Salam Shalom Salom Registered Senior Member

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    Obama is not a fascist; he's far-left.
     
  21. Johnnycake Registered Member

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    Far left is too closely related to fascism for my liking.
     
  22. Johnnycake Registered Member

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    You go on about your rant though. You're thankfully outnumbered by intellectually honest people in here, and you're doing a great job of scaring us the hell away from your ideology.
     
  23. Norsefire Salam Shalom Salom Registered Senior Member

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    Fascism is considered far-right

    Scaring you away? I made it abundantly clear in my OP about how successful fascism is.

    The thing is, you must be willing to make sacrifices for the greater good.
     
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