Black/Brown/Gay etc Pride = Good; White Pride = Racism

Discussion in 'Free Thoughts' started by Thoreau, Aug 11, 2009.

  1. Mrs.Lucysnow Valued Senior Member

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    I know its weird. The first time someone said that to me I was

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    and then :jawdrop:
     
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  3. Mrs.Lucysnow Valued Senior Member

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    What demonstrations? You are speaking of demonstrations but no one else is speaking about demonstrations. What did you mean by 'What exactly are you proud of that is exclusively "white"?" Why should blacks be proud of being black? I mean what is it that is 'exclusively' black to be proud of?

    Are you saying that Americans have the right to treat muslims as terrorits because of past and present associations? Are blacks to be treated as criminals because of past associations?
     
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  5. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Does repeating the question elicit different responses?

    I've already answered what I meant/
     
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  7. Mrs.Lucysnow Valued Senior Member

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    No you haven't answered the question. You, as usual, are avoiding the question. You speak of past associations so I am asking you if you saying that Americans have the right to think of and treat muslims as terrorits because of past and present associations? Are blacks to be treated and thought of as criminals because of past associations?

    You keep bringing up demonstrations when no one has brought up demonstrations. You really haven't answered what you mean by "What are you proud of that is 'exclusively white'. Not at all.
     
  8. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    And I said, they are. Thats what past association means.

    If you are not "demonstrating" white pride, there is no need to worry about social approval.
     
  9. Mrs.Lucysnow Valued Senior Member

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    No one is speaking of demonstrations you are. Do you need to re-read the OP? I think it may help. Again with past associations I ask you this?

    You speak of past associations so I am asking you if you saying that Americans have the right to think of and treat muslims as terrorits because of past and present associations? Are blacks to be treated and thought of as criminals because of past associations?

    Are you saying its ok to say whites should not have pride because of past associations?
     
  10. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Why don't you try it out?

    Wear a patch like this n your person:

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    And let me know how its perceived.
     
  11. WillNever Valued Senior Member

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    SAM... I feel forced to point out that racial profiling (and indeed, most other forms of racism) are based on the method you are describing yourself using here: the use of a generally experienced trend being used to treat people of a different race in a different way. Let me explain why.

    Police officers will often try to justify cases of racial profiling when they questions blacks on suspicion of drug dealing or carrying weapons. They explain it away with "Well, you can't blame me for being more suspicious of blacks. More of them just happen to be criminals, in my experience."

    That may be the case... but we still condemn racial profiling on the basis of past experience with black criminals.
     
  12. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    I was merely attempting to answer the OP, if you have a better explanation, go for it. Myself, I have yet to see a demonstration of white pride that was not racist [I have seen three that were] or a black one that was. So I can only go by my own experience in this regard
     
  13. Mrs.Lucysnow Valued Senior Member

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    Sam you are not keeping to the point. THAT represents an organization this is not about extremism nor is it about hate groups. Or are you saying that being proud of being white is hateful? What you are doing is like putting up a swastika because someone asks why is it wrong to be proud of being german. In other words german pride=nazi

    Again I ask, you speak of past associations so I am asking you if you saying that Americans have the right to think of and treat muslims as terrorits because of past and present associations? Are blacks to be treated and thought of as criminals because of past associations?

    Are you saying whites should not have pride because of past associations?

    AGAIN no one is speaking of demonstrations except YOU!!!!
     
  14. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Frankly just saying "white pride" puts one into mind of ugly neo-nazi demonstrations. Maybe whites could come up with an alternate term.

    Perhaps that is a legacy of my association with the term

    white pride = neonazi demonstrations.
     
  15. Japarican Registered Senior Member

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    I would have to agree with SAM. I just feel the general public will not receive it so well if white pride was started. Unfortunately, people tend to make assumptions based on past associations.
     
  16. Mrs.Lucysnow Valued Senior Member

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    And that is the point of the OP. He is saying that pride in being white is immediately equated with racism.

    But again no one is speaking of demonstrations so for you to keep bringing it up is just a form of trolling, distracting from the OP so it is about racism=white pride.

    Congratulations you have proven his point.
     
  17. Mrs.Lucysnow Valued Senior Member

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    I know which is why she shouldn't be so pissed off when americans make associations between muslims and terrorists. Its only natural right? :shrug:
     
  18. Japarican Registered Senior Member

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    Yes, you are absolutely right. I suppose it's only natural for her to defend her beliefs just like you are now. We all feel strongly about certain things that pertain to us. We are only human. Sometimes it can make us a bit hypocritical.
     
  19. Mrs.Lucysnow Valued Senior Member

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    It makes some VERY hypocritical.
     
  20. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    I didn't realise it needed to be proven.
     
  21. Mrs.Lucysnow Valued Senior Member

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    Well you see the fact is that YOU equate white's with racism Sam but you get your knickers in a twist if anyone has anyone makes negative associations with your lot. The fact is that its hypocritical and OPPRESSIVE to say or infer that whites should not have pride in their ethnicity and cultural heritage. So yeah you're a hypocrite and dare I say prejudiced.
     
  22. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    I didn't create the associations with white pride anymore than I did the one with Islamic terrorism. But you can be sure that if Muslims get profiled for terrorism, there is very little I can do about it. And thats inspite of the fact that people have met many Muslims who are not terrorists, while I have yet to meet anyone who self identifies with white pride and is not a neo-nazi.
     
  23. Pandaemoni Valued Senior Member

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    The answer is "history." Historically speaking, groups of white people coming together based on race has had certain tendencies. The reason is that white people have power, and when you come together in a group that as power, there is a tendency to exercise it.

    When blacks and gays come together on the basis of their common traits, the result is usually a group that lacks political power, and do the only thing they have is a social impact--they speak. Sometimes those groups are intolerant too, but at the end of the day they only are there to jabber on. If there were a long history of serious oppression of whites, white pride events would be just as acceptable.

    Couple that with the fact that every existing white pride group that anyone has ever heard of believe in straight up racial superiority of the white race or they believe that the races must be physically separated into their own nations (and, really, that whites are superior anyway, at least by any standard that whites care about).

    Plus further consider that whites presently have all the power. Imagine how unseemly it would be if there were a "Well Bred Pride" movement, where people from long-established, powerful and wealthy families got together and celebrated their disproportionate impact on the world and their role in U.S. and world history. Does anyone want to hear from some scion of the Rockefellers or Rothschilds talk about how great it is to be in his family, and how because of all the power his family has accumulated, he has his pick of jobs and mansions, and how he can still get his congressman/MP on the phone with a single phone call based on his name alone? The answer is "not really." No one wants to hear about how awesome it has been having power on the basis of the genetic lottery, and then all the stuff your family got to do with that power.

    I think it is tolerable to hear the the segregated and less powerful segments of society chime in with a "and we helped!" But hearing the powerful talk about how their power enables them to do so very much, is, again, unseemly.

    The argument seems to be that there should be exact parity between the races. If blacks can do it, so can whites. If blacks can use the word "nigger" white should be allowed too. If Carlos Mencia can make fun of Mexicans, whites should be able to. If the NAACP can operate openly and have national status, then so should white pride groups. If there's a Black History Month, then there should be a White History Month.

    That's certainly "fair" in the very abstract, but in the real world our history and contexts are not "fair" in the same way. The socio-historical context matters, and simply arguing for exact parity ignores the that social and historical context in which the differences arose.

    The truth is, right now, I cannot imagine a need to express pride in the white race. Caucasian accomplishments seem to advertise themselves pretty well, and no one is confused about were the power base of the west currently lays. No one "forgets" that the West is composed mostly of whites and anyone who glosses over their contributions to western history is producing a laughably bad version of western history (if it is intended to be comprehensive at all, at least). The main reason I can conceive to express white pride is as a counter to other kinds of pride, because you are tired of hearing of their contributions and want to remind them of the rest of history for a bit. (Stated differently, to remind them who was really in charge while they tinkered at the edges). As such any "white pride" movement probably will consist of 1 intellectually interested person and 99 racists who feel threatened by a perceived loss of power.

    There are two bad things about "black power". The first is that they feel so marginalized and insecure that they feel the need to assert it at all, for fear people would forget their heritage. The second is that our culture has so beaten them down, that they take pride in the accomplishments of others unrelated to them save for the fact that they share "race." It's like being proud that a Nobel Prize winner lives in you city: it doesn't say anything about you or your accomplishments. That said, we held them down on the basis of race, so it is to be expected that they would develop a perceived bond on that basis, even if it is irrational.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2009

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