Engage the x drive: Ten ways to traverse deep space

Discussion in 'Astronomy, Exobiology, & Cosmology' started by Scaramouche, Jan 4, 2010.

  1. Scaramouche Registered Member

    Messages:
    432
    Read and enjoy.
     
  2. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  3. mananmater Registered Member

    Messages:
    46
    Sorry adam, more bullshit analysis, in order to really travel to aplha centuari or any ware like the north star any time reasonable we will have to find a way to travel much faster than 50,000 miles per milisecond, and don't tell me anything else, because this is the only way.


    if it is possible to travel faster than the speed of sound, it is most definitely possible to travel faster than the speed of light, my only fear is that after we find out that those people were wrong will eventually find another so called speed barrier and say it is impossible to travel faster than that, when some time ago people said it was impossible to travel faster than a chariot, so ignorance is bliss, and people hate a world without there limits imposed, but lets keep these theories, rather from einstein or anyone else, theories, please, and lets hear everyone, and accept the fact that as much as we think we know at the time, either 2 or 200 years later we learn we didn't know much of tat back then and still don't know that much even then, so honestly nothing should be accepted as a fact, it's all peoples opinions coming together, no matter how much so called proof that can easily become your opponents proof you have.
     
  4. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  5. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    19,252
    Who the hell gives speeds in miles per millisecond?

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!


    FYI, 50,000 miles per millisecond is 50,000,000 miles per second: about 268 x C.
    I'd suggest that if we could travel at that speed we'd find it to be adequate for most needs.

    Edit: and speaking of "bullshit analysis" where did that figure (50,000 miles per millisecond) come from?

    Arrant nonsense, the two do not compare in any way, shape or form.

    Which people?
    With what evidence?
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2010
  6. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  7. mananmater Registered Member

    Messages:
    46
    dwyyder, I asked you to please refrain from tagging(following just to reply with some unhelpful post) and irratating others, please listen.
     
  8. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    18,523
    I figure if faster than light travel is impossible the fastest way is interstellar teleporation:
    1. Have a robotic probe traveling at sub-light speed get there.
    2. It sets up a laser link back to earth.
    3. Have your genome sequenced
    4. Have your neural patterns copied, preferably non-destructively.
    5. Transmit via laser link at the speed of light
    6. At the interstellar outpost have a new body constructed and neural patterns installed.
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2010
  9. Blindman Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,425
    Our best current bet for interstellar exploration is the Iron engine. It would require very long term planning and investment, which is currently way beyond the ability of any government or private organization. A nuclear power iron propulsion probe would not be that expensive apart from the on going maintenance cost here on earth to monitor and control the probe.

    Where would we send it. Alpha Centauri is a close neighbor but not an interesting one, mind you there are most likely thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, of objects within ten light years.

    Until we can plan for a return on investment that will only happen in thousands of years, interstellar travel is a pipe dream. There is of course plenty of good science that can be done on the way.

    Plus building a probe that can last a thousand years in the harsh high energy environment of interstellar space is probable but not likely.
     
  10. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    19,252
    I'm not tagging, the topic is of interest.
    Unhelpful posts?
    And you consider your piece of specious rubbish to be helpful? Or even not irritating?
    You invent a figure, and then claim it's not fast enough (even though it's 268xC).
    You post nonsense about "if we can break the sound barrier we can definitely break the light speed barrier because we can exceed M=1" and you think that's helpful?
    Get an education, please.

    Edit: I note that, once again, you have addressed my supposed "irritating posts" rather than answer the questions.
    Do you have any evidence to support your views, or are you going to stick with "I don't actually know, so I'll make it up as I go along"?
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2010
  11. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    18,523
    I would disagree, a nuclear salt water rocket could do a lot better:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_salt-water_rocket
    Because of their ability to harness the power of what is essentially a continuous nuclear fission explosion, NSWRs would have both very high thrust and very high exhaust velocity, a rare combination of traits in the rocket world, meaning that the rocket would be able to accelerate quickly as well as extremely efficient in terms of propellant usage. One design would generate 13 meganewtons of thrust at 66 km/s exhaust velocity (compared to ~4.5 km/s exhaust velocity for the best chemical rockets of today). Another design would achieve much higher exhaust velocities (4,700 km/s) and use 2,700 tonnes of highly enriched Uranium salts in water to propel a 300 tonne spacecraft up to 3.6% of the speed of light.

    A binary star system that could potentially have terrestrial planets around one of both of its stars is not interesting? Combined with the fact that its really a trinary star system and there is a red dwarf star that could also have explorable planets in far off orbit about the two primary stars. I would wait a few years for the results from the planet hunters studying Alpha Centauri before saying its uninteresting.


    That like saying sending probes to other planets is a pipe dream. True and interstellar probe may cost a lot more but by the time propulsion systems become good enough to reach the speeds for journey times in decades, the technological singularity may render what you know of market economics moot.

    Interstellar space is very benign, more so than stellar space, its only fault is its so god awful cold at almost absolute zero, an interstellar ship would need to stay warm for the whole trip.
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2010
  12. Blindman Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,425
    Ill bow to god when I see him..
    Lets sustain it on earth before we even start thinking we can do it in a few tones of space ship.
    We have looked and looked.. So far nothing. No planets, not even a hint of a large rock. (in context of Alpha Centauri)

    There are some close red dwarfs that are way more interesting and potentially beneficial for humanity. The ultimate aim of space exploration is to find a new home.
     
  13. Blindman Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,425
    and a lot of high energy particles that don't have to bother with the heliosphere. As for staying warm thats easy. We do it now with Spirit and Opportunity. Several refined uranium pelts keep them warm. But don't go near them
     
  14. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    18,523
    I don't think that would be wise, considering the radioactive contamination problem from something like this it might cost less to test this thing in space.

    no we haven't, please cite me a radical velocity study of alpha centauri sensitive enough to find terrestrial planets that found no planets or even better "large rock", oh that right there are two, going on right now which won't have enough data for several more years before coming to conclusions!
    http://www.centauri-dreams.org/?p=10489

    if it makes you feel better there are certainly no Jupiter size gas giants there and thus no Pandora.

    I really hope not. Talking monkeys spreading through space is a horrible idea.
     
  15. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    18,523
    The heliosphere can't stop shit.

    its plutonium, and check out the half-life on Pu238 and tell me it can keep a ship warm for 1000 years.
     
  16. Blindman Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,425
    There are plenty of radioactive isotopes that can be used. As for a 1000 years I agree it is a problem but then electronics love the cold. Fuel systems and batteries are the problem.
    Not sure of the numbers but compared to interstellar space there are a lot of particles for stellar rays to interact with inside the solar system. Also the heliosphere protects us from many charged interstellar particles. Plus we have no idea of the radiation out there as we are just crossing the boundaries with voyager.
     
  17. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    18,523
    electronics made at room tempertures may crack at those, let alone heating of one area my cause intense mechanical stress on a colder area with those kind of temperature extremes. I would suggest assuming it fusion or nuclear powered merely utilizing the waste heat from the engines or idling the engines or axillary nuclear fission/fusion power supplies while in cruising, assuming this is possible of course.

    The heliosphere can't protect us from shit, cosmic rays come in with ease, the only thing out there is the interstellar medium, very cold, relatively slow moving neutral atoms, the stellar wind and solar flares are a lot harsher then whats in the interstellar medium. The worse radiation would be from the ship, its reactors, and from radiation produced by dust hitting the ship at relativistic speeds assuming the ship is moving at percentages the speed of light.
     
  18. mananmater Registered Member

    Messages:
    46
    dwyyder, this is the last time I will ask you to refrain from trolling, nagging with troll posts and irritating others, for now on ill disregard your posts, you can post anywhere because there is no ignore button, but your posts will seemingly not exists.



    electricfetus, there are so many new engines being researched right now it's astonishing, thanks for sharing some more, interesting.
     
  19. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    19,252
    If you ever posted something that wasn't outright nonsense then I wouldn't give the replies I do.
    YOU are the one making troll posts.
    Try learning something before you post again.
    And if you make a statement that goes against accepted science then back it up.
    All you've done so far is post specious drivel with no supporting evidence then complain when it's been pointed that it actually IS drivel.
    FYI there is an ignore option.
    Go ahead, use it.
    Then I can point out your nonsense without you whining afterwards.
     
  20. Ophiolite Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    9,232
    On balance you appear to be the irritating one here. This is a science forum, not an 'I've got no education and a dyslexic imagination' forum. Claiming that the velocity of light can be exceeded because the sound barrier can be exceeded is ignorant. You should not be surprised, or annoyed, if you are criticised for making such a dumb statement. I look forward to useful discussions with you, but those will not be possible if you continue to make such lightweight posts.
     
  21. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    18,523
    The sound barrier was not a physical barrier like the light speed limit, the sound barrier was a engineering barrier: prop engines of the time could get any thrust at the speed of sound, it was even questioned if planes could gain lift at the speed of sound, but aside for planes they already had rockets and bullets exceeding the speed of sound.
     
  22. eburacum45 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,297
    I've examined a lot of interstellar propulsion concepts; and the best one I know of at the moment is Jordin Kare's Sailbeam concept.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordin_Kare#Sailbeam
    millions of tiny laser-boosed foil lightsails impacting a magnetic scoop on the ship to transfer thrust. You don't have to take any fuel with you. Kare's concept uses magnetic braking to slow down, which is quite clever too.
     
  23. Blindman Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,425
    It is an interesting take on light sails but it would suffer from on obvious flaw. The solar wind is variable and difficult to predict. At close range the stream of small mirrors would easily be directed to the ship. But at longer ranges the stream will begin to warp and move around due to the solar wind. The ship can not change course without the stream and even a fractional push on the stream and it would miss the ship and leave it to flounder in space.
     

Share This Page