Netanyahu: No deal until Palestinians accept Israel as Jewish

What does it mean Israel is a "Jewish" State? You can be Muslim right? Christian? Atheist? Scientologist? You can be white, black, brown, yellow? You can be Indian ethnicity, Arab ethnicity, German ethnicity, Russian ethnicity, etc... Correct?
No one can MAKE people be "Jewish". That's no different than those psychos that deem you're born a religion.
If Israel has religious discriminatory laws, then we should make sure that people know this an decide not to do business with Israel. Including not trading with Israel. As in sanctions.

Until people stop believing in their magical sky daddy, nothing is going to change in that part of the world. Let's hope we see it through another 50 years before some nut creates THE God-Virus and wipes us all out.

 

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The obvious

It comes down to a fundamental question that Israelis face, and the outlook is conflicted. What kind of society does Israel want? In another thread, we are considering the word "apartheid". By recognizing Israel as a "Jewish state", Palestinians would be opening a route to a one-state solution that protects against a potential Muslim majority.

The problem with democracy is that on any issue any person can find themselves in the minority. People don't like being a political minority, and recognizing Israel as a Jewish state is one way to preserve Jewish overtones amid a growing Muslim population.

 

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What does it MEAN to be a Jewish State? What IS a Jewish State? Is it one where only Jews can run for office? Or one that only recognizes Jewish holidays? It's situations here, where I wonder, if polytheism were the norm, would we still have these sorts of situations? I mean, imagine if people who worshiped a river Goddess, moved to a new place, a place with a mountain God, then they could just start worshiping the mountain deity. This allows a place to retain it's unique character and customs while at the same time making it easy to accommodate a new comer into the region and eventually including the civic life as well. Sure there'll always be problems, but, maybe not as stupid as: "Jew State".

 

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In practical terms, it means that only Jews have the right of return and no other "ethnicity" not even those born in the state and recently tossed out, like the al Kurd family whose home was demolished in East Jerusalem last year who now live in a tent outside it [if they still do]. It means that only Jews get rights to build homes or lease land, only Jews who are recognised as Jews by the religious clergy can get married or buried as Jews. It means that only Jews have the right to freedom of movement within Palestine and can live on the settlements, get achools, water, transport, employment and electric power in the state of Israel. You can recognise the non-Jewish neighborhoods in Israel by their lack or scarcity of the above. You can also recognise non Jews by the three colours of their entry cards, orange blue and maroon, which indicate where they are allowed to live. If you have a maroon card which puts you in Gaza, then you can be deported from a university in the orange zone, by soldiers. Even though its all your country under the rule of Palestinian law, but still occupied by foreigners who move in from Europe and the US and decide where you should live, if you should eat or study and whether you deliver your baby at a checkpoint or in a hospital.

It means any Jew can show a document which claims that he owns a land or home of a Palestinian and the Palestinian will be out on the street while the Jew moves into his home and is afforded protection against the dispossessed family by the state apparatus. It means that Jews can decide to demolish valuable historical sites like the grave of Saladin to build a "Museum of Tolerance" over it. It means only Jewish sites in the holy land are protected by the state.

It means things like this:

At mondoweiss, which is a Jewish blog giving Jewish perspectives on the occupation, Michael Ratner who recently visited Israel for the first time has depicted his emotions by this representation:

http://mondoweiss.net/images/hebronandhistory.jpg

You can see the various notes on his visit at the same blog

 

So because Israel wants the land palestinians have no right to live on land that's been in the family for centries. if the victims were jews rather than the oppressors you'd be screaming to high heaven and calling anyone who made the argument you just made an anti semite

 

I don't come to your house and shit in your soup, so stay out of mine. Thanks. Why don't you discuss real human rights issues instead of getting your panties in a bunch over a democratic country like Israel? Any Arab should be so lucky to live in Israel. The Sudanese Muslim refugees risk their lives to be shot on sight in Egypt so they can get to Israel.

Crazy people like SAM, and ideologues like tiassa don't know an iota of what they're talking about vis-a-vis Israel other than on the academic level. They read a few things and now they think they know.

Anyway, Israel and Jews don't need your approval. The crazy is in the minority in the west, so insofar that Israel needs any approval, it's got it. As for Muslim states, they should take a long hard look in the mirror and "stop shitting in my soup" until they take care of their own recipe.

And now, to make your fucking head spin I'm gonna put this smiley right here:

:fart:

Smell it!

 

well considering you push right wing ideas state side you do shit in my soup.

ISrael is not a democracy. Democracies don't have different rights for different people.

So they should be lucky to go to a place that abuses them?

They read few things and yet they know more than you who closes his eyes to the suffering caused by Israel. You make excuses for war crimes and than act insulted for being called out on it.

actually they kind of do considering the country needed foreign aid to survive. So long as its sucking off the tit of the west we have right and the obligation to critic it.

you mean the honest. its not crazy to oppose Israel.

sadly this is true but its changing as barbaric people like you continue to rise to the forefront in Israel.

The same could be said about you. take care of the Israeli human rights abuses before comment on others but than again Israel is nothing but hypocritical.

and to top it off you display childishness. Well guess what wahh wahh you and Israel have to deal with your action. You have no right to demand any not to criticize Israel. You don't get that right until you shut the fuck about other countries but than again that kind of honesty is alien to Israel and its supporters. Your wahh wahh complain about someone else rant I'm replying to shows that.

 

I think its a very good sign that otheadp is upset, so upset that he is reduced to making arguments that the trains run on time

 

I skipped most of your post though I did notice some anti Zionist buzz words here and there. You keep recycling the same post over and over from the other thread too. Most of it is ideological points and mass generalizations. Nothing concrete and no attention paid or explanations given (or even twisted) about the democratic institutions in Israel - for all, not just for Jews. You dismissed my link to Dershowits' blog post as "well it's a blog so it's obviously slanted" without addressing anything he's said.

Israel leads the way in democracy - not just in the Middle East, but in the world. It's in many respects at the forefront. Those who decide to close their eyes to this or even the basic democratic nature of Israel do so by choice, and will never see it even if evidence is brought to their doorstep in droves. I'm talking about YOU Bells, among others. I'd bring you some more examples but you won't read my links or will dismiss this yet another batch of shining examples of democracy (in a sea of despotism, and under constant thread of annihilation) as "propaganda" or whatever other mental device you people use to dismiss said evidence. Or in your case, if you really are a lawyer (I highly doubt it by now), you'll use some rhetorical trick.

Even Muslims who have been taught by their society and parents and grandparents and government over generations to hate Israel, once they visit they change their minds.

http://www.indianmuslims.info/news/...jewish_group_takes_indian_muslims_israel.html

More info about the same visit: http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/123448

Israeli treatment of its Arab residents is respectful on the institutional level where laws are made and governing is done, and on the street level of people interacting with people. No one said things were perfect, but people like you and SAM and tiassa who only read headlines and extremist essays really... and I mean really don't know what you're talking about. Come visit, go to Arab villages/towns, go to places like Akko, Haifa, Jerusalem, Tsfat and other mixed towns, and see for yourself how things are.

As for Israel to be a Jewish state, that's what Israel is. It's both Jewish and democratic.

 

remember he is an Israeli spook so Israel must be good. He's probably a product of the lies they force feed their children in Israel.

 

He's a product of the Tel Aviv bubble, but even in Tel Aviv now, the Jewish police are breaking up Jew-Arab dates and counselling Jews on why racism is better for Jews.

Life in the Tel Aviv Bubble

Its an interesting picture of what life may have been like for Germans living around the concentration camps.

There is nothing more banal than evil.

I bet he never heard a single word on the white phosphorus thrown on Gazans. Just like I bet he never thought about what happened to all the people who lived in the villages that were erased to build Tel Aviv.

 

the US population has paid for (70 yrs) the creation of an equal (no religious preference) state called israel (congress was told, it would be good to have a US presence in the Middle east oil region)

Over time, that state began to openly claim itself a jewish nation.

Well that is against anything the US population and its governing laws are supposed to entertain.

No communism, no bigotry, no religion over equality and no power other than 'the people' as being the quest for freedom.

The reality is, 'we the people' have been lied to.

as far as I am concerned, stop funding israel is the most compassionate VOTE a US citizen could focus on.

If the Prime minister Netanyahu was actually voted into power based on a slogan of "no loyalty, no citizenship" then find them people are doing EXACTLY what Hitler did in 1933 when Judaism declared war on Germany.

Dr. Manfred Reifer, a well known leader of the Jews of Bukovina, wrote in the Jewish magazine Czernowitzer Allegemeine Zeitung (September 1933):

'Whilst large sections of the German nation were struggling for the preservation of their race, we Jews filled the streets of Germany with our vociferations. We supplied the press with articles on the subject of its Christmas and Easter and administered to its religious beliefs in the manner we considered suitable. We ridiculed the highest ideals of the German nation and profaned the matters which it holds sacred.'

Resentment and resistance began to build up against the alien horde and in the year before Adolf Hitler came to power Bernard Lecache, President of the World Jewish League, stated:

'Germany is our public enemy number one. It is our object to declare war without mercy against her.'



To really know the history, many would not be so blinded by the media usage; i suggest any do their own research and find, from the congressional appropriation of funding (a nation of equality) to the war with Germany and what caused the divide. What we were are taught as children is being found a lie.

Right now, Israel holds a 1.2 million soul concentration camp and has NO desire of paying reparations for the displaced population.

Why deal with a governing body or population that believes they are doing what God wants while maintaining a population behind fences, walls and the intent of performing rituals for messiah to come.

SO now i will ask any 'who'........What if a person asked to highest ranking rabbi on the globe a simple question; "if existence only operates ONE way, is the math the 'name' to know?"


would they know what it means?

(look over the question and ponder a bit; do the old books share, that only one knows the name)

 

Its like a form of catharsis, I think.

1. Israeli Palestinians live under conditions like those of German Jews in 1935 or 1937.

2. Jerusalem Palestinians live under conditions like those of German Jews in the first half of 1939.

3. OT Palestinians live under conditions like those of Polish Jews before the start of Operation Barbarossa.


On the flip side, some of the best writing against Zionism is also by Jews:

http://www.wrmea.org/archives/November_2005/0511066.html

And its nothing new or recent. As far back as Herman Cohen or even Maimonedes, ethical Jews have opposed Zionism.

 

Your post contains many factually wrong statements, and wild claims. They don't sound cynical to me so I'm going to respond.

Please read my last post about the relationship between Jews and Arabs in Israel.

The best thing that Israel can do to combat the insane propaganda against it in the Muslim and extreme-Left press is to invite people, especially Muslims, to come visit Israel and make their impressions from first-hand accounts, not from what they read in the press or academia which gets slanted, re-slanted, and re-slanted again, and then reaches you.

 

They should try to make a deal quickly then. It's a forceful negotiating strategy. Less bloody than bombs.

They tried to comprimise and were met with armies, so it's time to play hardball. We will see if this right to live on some special land is more important than lives.

 

Israel tried to compromise? since when? your post resembles the arab side more than the Israeli. Sorry spider but going we only going to take 40% in stead of 60% of your property isn't a compromise. Should a slave be thankful that is master "compromised" with him by beating him only 5 times in stead of ten. If ISrael truly compromised they would give something up. they never have given up anything concrete just empty promises to not take more which were always quickly broken.

 

What is wild about observing oppression at its worse kind on this planet: gaza?

i know, approximately 20% of the israelis poplulation is muslim and they are not treated as equals.

Israel was never supposed to be a religious state and that is why them muslims are even there but over the last 2 decades a huge change has occured in which now the politicians are allowing the claim to even be made of a 'jewish state'.

If israel is a jewish state, then i want the last 70 yrs of US funding back!

So either you guys change your tune and allow a equal opportunity "VOTING" of politics rather than the JEWISH state being the ruling party

or you and i are not on good terms (by virtue)

that is exactly what i tell any who, find compassion, equality and the absolute in truth is all that matters (to me), not religion, not rituals and definitely not the identity of one creed of man better than another, if compassionate awareness is observed, then truth can be felt/known.

that 'name' is what many seek and to live forever and raise them fathers; takes understanding, by that very last word

you getting some very unique opportunities right here, and if you want to know that end all, use compassion over the guise of self and begin to allow an unfolding

 

You should write more clearly. I don't understand what you wrote. It was ramblings actually.

 

No deal with any who deny reality!