Powell's "evidence"...

Discussion in 'World Events' started by Adam, Feb 5, 2003.

  1. RichardJA Banned Banned

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  3. Adam §Þ@ç€ MØnk€¥ Registered Senior Member

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    RichardJA

    Fantastic! Thanks very much for the link. That's just funny. And I feel it needs to be read, so...

     
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  5. Microzoft Registered Senior Member

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    Powell’s Real Evidence!

    Things about Powell’s history that the Press doesn’t press;

    In his memoirs, An American Journey on page 140 Gen. Powell writes, about the Vietnam war:

    “If a helo [helicopter]spotted a peasant in black pajamas who looked remotely suspicious, a possible MAM [military age male] the pilot would circle and fire in front of him. If he moved, his movement was judged evidence of hostile intent, and the next burst was not in front, but at him. Brutal? Maybe so.”

    Article Three of the Geneva Convention of 1949 to which the United States is a signatory, states that::

    (1) Persons taking no active part in the hostilities, including members of armed forces who have laid down their arms and those placed hors de combat by sickness, wounds, detention, or any other cause, shall in all circumstances be treated humanely, without any adverse distinction founded on race, colour, religion or faith, sex, birth or wealth, or any other similar criteria. To this end the following acts are and shall remain prohibited at any time and in any place whatsoever with respect to the above- entioned persons:

    (a) violence to life and person, in particular murder of all kinds, mutilation, cruel treatment and torture;

    On Panama:
    1) The U.S. Army used highly sophisticated and experimental weapons against unarmed civilian populations;
    2) Estimates of the number of non- combatants killed run from as few as 2200 to as high as 4000 Many of the mostly black victims were residents of the El Chorrillos slum which was next to the Panamanian military headquarters and was razed to the ground in the attack;
    3) U.S. efforts to obscure the actual death toll included massive incineration of corpses prior to identification, burial in mass graves prior to identification, and U.S. military control of administrative offices of hospitals and morgues;
    4) "A thorough, well-planned propaganda campaign has been implemented by U.S. authorities to... deny the brutality and extensive human and material costs of the invasion." (CODEHUCA report submitted to Americas Watch 6/5/90)

    More……http://www.nowarcollective.com/powellbio.htm
    :m:
     
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  7. Adam §Þ@ç€ MØnk€¥ Registered Senior Member

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    Powell presents US case of Iraq's failure to disarm; Iraq replies to allegations

    Powell presents US case of Iraq's failure to disarm; Iraq replies to allegations
    Iraq-USA, Politics, 2/6/2003

    Armed with satellite images, transcripts of intercepted telephone conversations and other intelligence data, United States Secretary of State Colin Powell today presented the United Nations Security Council with what he called "solid" evidence that showed Iraq still has not complied with resolutions calling for it to disarm.

    "My colleagues, every statement I make today is backed up by sources, solid sources. These are not assertions. What we're giving you are facts and conclusions based on solid intelligence," Mr. Powell told the ministerial-level session of the 15-member body. Before hearing Mr. Powell's presentation, the Council members decided to grant Iraq's request to allow its representative sit at the Council table and make a statement at the end of the meeting.

    The US Secretary of State stressed that Iraq still poses a threat and remains in "material breach" of Council resolutions. "Indeed, by its failure to seize its one last opportunity to come clean and disarm, Iraq has put itself in deeper material breach and close to the day when it will face serious consequences for its continued defiance of this Council," he said. "We must not fail in our duty and our responsibility to the citizens of our countries."

    Mr. Powell stressed that Iraq's continued efforts to conceal evidence and documents from UN inspectors, the active interference by Saddam Hussein himself to prevent interviews with Iraqi individuals, and a host of other activities that demonstrated its non-compliance were all violations of the terms of Security Council Resolution 1441. That text, he emphasized, states that "false statements and omissions" and a failure by Iraq "to comply with, and cooperate fully" in the implementation of the resolution should constitute a further material breach of its obligations.

    "This body places itself in danger of irrelevance if it allows Iraq to continue to defy its will without responding effectively and immediately," Mr. Powell warned. "The issue before us is not how much more time we are willing to give the inspectors to be frustrated by Iraqi obstruction, but how much longer are we willing to put up with Iraq's non-compliance before we say: 'Enough!'"

    Referring to the audio-visual evidence he presented to the Council, Mr. Powell said the material had US and foreign origins, and came from technical sources, such as intercepted telephone conversations and photos taken by satellites. "Other sources are people who have risked their lives to let the world know what Saddam Hussein is really up to," he said.

    "I cannot tell you everything that we know, but what I can share with you, when combined with what all of us have learned over the years, is deeply troubling," Mr. Powell said. "What you will see is an accumulation of facts and disturbing patterns of behaviour. The facts and Iraq's behaviour demonstrate that Saddam Hussein and his regime have made no effort - no effort - to disarm as required by the international community. Indeed, the facts and Iraq's behaviour show that Saddam Hussein and his regime are concealing their efforts to produce more weapons of mass destruction."

    The satellite photos shown by Mr. Powell reflected what he called "concealment" activity undertaken in response to the resumption of UN inspections last November, while other images depicted suspected manufacturing sites for biological and chemical weapons. Mr. Powell also played tapes of intercepted conversations between Iraqi military personnel that he said indicated a concerted effort to hide or destroy evidence of weapons of mass destruction.

    Mr. Powell also said there has been no indication that Saddam Hussein has ever abandoned his nuclear weapons programme. According to testimony provided by defectors, Iraq already possesses two of the three key components needed to build a nuclear bomb, a cadre of scientists with the necessary expertise and a bomb design. "Since 1998, his efforts to reconstitute his nuclear programme have been focuses on acquiring the third and last component - sufficient fissile material to produce a nuclear explosion," he said.

    Turning to terrorism, Mr. Powell said Iraq had a long history of supporting terrorist organizations and that there was a potentially "more sinister nexus" between Baghdad and the Al-Qaida network. He said Iraq's denials of any ties with the organization are not credible.

    "None of this should come as a surprise to any of us," Mr. Powell said. "Terrorism has been a tool of Saddam for decades. Saddam was a supporter of terrorism long before these terrorist networks had a name, and this support continues. The nexus of poisons and terror is new; the nexus of Iraq and terror is old. The combination is lethal."

    On human rights abuses, Mr. Powell recounted how Mr. Hussein used mustard and nerve gases against the Kurds in 1988, successfully invaded neighbouring States "with provocation," and "ruthlessly eliminates" anyone who dares to dissent. "Underlying all that I have said, underlying all the facts and the patterns of behaviour I have identified, is Saddam Hussein's contempt for the will of this Council, his contempt for the truth, and most damning of all, his utter contempt for human life," he said.

    "We know that Saddam Hussein is determined to keep his weapons of mass destruction and make more," Mr. Powell said. "Given Saddam Hussein's history of aggression, given what we know of his grandiose plans, given what we know of his terrorist associations, and given his determination to exact revenge on those who have opposed him, should we take the risk that he will not someday use these weapons at a time and a place and in a manner of his choosing - at a time when the world is in a much weaker position to respond?"

    Mr. Powell said the United States "will not - we cannot - run that risk to the American people. Leaving Saddam Hussein in possession of weapons of mass destruction for a few more months or years is not an option. Not in a post-September 11th world."

    Addressing the Security Council after United States Secretary of State Colin Powell presented evidence of Iraq's failure to disarm, the Iraqi representative to the United Nations today refuted the US charges and reaffirmed his country's readiness to continue to fully cooperate with UN inspectors.

    "The pronouncements in Mr. Powell's statements on weapons of mass destruction are utterly unrelated to the truth. No new information was provided, mere sound recordings that cannot be ascertained as genuine," Ambassador Mohammed A. Aldouri told the Council at the end of its ministerial-level meeting, chaired by Foreign Minister Joschka Fischer of Germany, which holds the rotating Presidency of the 15-nation body for the month of February.

    Ambassador Aldouri stressed that Iraq was totally free of weapons of mass destruction and that the forthcoming visit of the chief UN inspectors - Hans Blix of the UN Monitoring, Verification and Inspection Commission (UNMOVIC) and Mohamed ElBaradei of the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) - "will be a further opportunity to verify and ascertain the validity of [US] allegations."

    In a brief, point-by-point response to Mr. Powell's presentation, Ambassador Aldouri said Iraq had submitted an "accurate, comprehensive and updated" declaration of 12,000 pages, including detailed information on previous Iraqi programmes as well as updated information on Iraqi industries in various fields.

    After UN inspections resumed last November, Ambassador Aldouri noted, UNMOVIC and IAEA inspectors have so far carried out 575 inspections covering 321 sites. "Inspectors ascertained that all the allegationsÉwere not true," he said. "This confirms Iraq's declaration that it is free from weapons of mass destruction and that its declaration is truthful and accurate as documented by the two technical agencies entrusted by the Council to undertake that task."

    The Iraqi Ambassador also cited recent statements to the press by Mr. Blix that inspectors "did not ascertain any of the scenarios alleged by Powell, in that Iraqi officials were moving proscribed material inside or outside Iraq aiming at concealment." The UNMOVIC chief also confirmed that he did not find enough reasons to believe that Iraq was sending its scientists outside Iraq to prevent them from being interviewed, and that he had no reason to believe US President George W. Bush was correct in his State of the Union address in saying that Iraqi intelligence agents were posing as scientists for the interviews, Mr. Aldouri said.

    He dismissed allegations that trucks leave sites prior to the arrival of inspection teams as "a false accusation," noting that inspections occur "suddenly and instantaneously," without prior notification to the Iraqi side. "Furthermore, UNMOVIC and the IAEA have their own sources for satellite imagery and they use helicopters for surveillance and inspection activities," Ambassador Aldouri said.

    Responding to Mr. Powell's use of intercepted telephone conversations as evidence the Iraqis were taking steps to conceal its weapons programmes, Ambassador Aldouri said scientific and technical progress has reached such a level "that would allow the fabrication of such allegations and would allow for them to be offered in the way that Mr. Powell has presented."

    As for the supposed relationship between Iraq and the Al-Qaida organization, Ambassador Aldouri, quoting Iraqi President Saddam Hussein, said, "'If we had a relationship with Al-Qaida and we believed in that relationship, we would not be ashamed to admit it. We have no relationship with Al-Qaida.'"

    The Iraqi representative said his country offered security and peace, and reiterated its commitment to continue proactive cooperation with the inspection teams "so as to allow them to finish their tasks as soon as possible and verify that Iraq is free of weapons of mass destruction in order to lift the unjust sanctions imposed upon it and ensure respect of its national security."

    Here is a summary of the statement:
    Statement by Iraq

    MOHAMMED A. ALDOURI (Iraq) said his country would provide detailed and technical explanatory answers to the allegations made in Mr. Powell's statement.Ê What had been mentioned in the presentation was utterly unrelated to the truth.Ê No new information had been provided, except for sound recordings that could not be ascertained as genuine.Ê What had been presented contained incorrect allegations, unnamed and unknown sources, as well as assumptions in line with the American policy towards one known objective.

    He said President Hussein had reiterated in his interview yesterday that Iraq was free of weapons of mass destruction, a statement repeated by numerous Iraqi officials for more than a decade.Ê Mr. Powell could have spared himself, his team and the Council the effort by presenting his allegations directly to UNMOVIC and the IAEA in accordance with resolution 1441.Ê He could have left the inspectors to work in peace and without pressure.Ê

    At any rate, the forthcoming visit of Mr. Blix and Mr. ElBaradei on the eighth and ninth of this month would be another opportunity to verify the validity of those allegations, he continued.Ê The ongoing inspections had proven the falsity of previous allegations and reports issued by the United States and the United Kingdom.Ê Iraq had submitted an accurate, comprehensive and updated declaration of 12,000 pages, he continued.Ê It included detailed information on previous Iraqi programmes, as well as updated information on the country's industries in various fields.

    The inspectors had begun their activities in Iraq as of 27 November, he said.Ê By 4 February, the inspection teams had conducted 575 inspections all over Iraq covering 321 sites.Ê The sites referred to by President Bush and Prime Minister Blair in their September reports, as well as the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) report of October 2002, topped the list of the sites inspected by the United Nations teams.Ê The inspections had ascertained that all the allegations contained in those reports were not true.Ê That confirmed Iraq's declaration that it was free from weapons of mass destruction.Ê It was well known that the inspectors had taken samples of water, soil, plants, air, factory and production remnants throughout Iraq.Ê The analysis of those samples conducted by UNMOVIC and the IAEA confirmed the absence of any indication of proscribed chemical,

    biological or radiological agents, or any proscribed activities in any part of Iraq.

    In his statement to The New York Times on 30 January, Mr. Blix had confirmed that the inspectors had not ascertained any of the scenarios alleged by
    Mr. Powell, including movement of proscribed materials aiming at concealment.Ê He had confirmed that he had not found enough reasons to believe that Iraq was sending scientists out of the country to prevent them from being interviewed.Ê He also had no reason to believe what President Bush had said in his State of the Union address regarding Iraqi intelligence agents posing as scientists for the interviews.Ê Iraq was encouraging its scientists to participate in the interviews requested by UNMOVIC and the IAEA.

    As for the mobile laboratories, he said that Mr. Blix had stated that UNMOVIC to date had found no proof of those laboratories' existence.Ê His country did not object to overflights of U2 planes.Ê The obstruction to those overflights stemmed from the presence of United States and United Kingdom warplanes in the illegally imposed no-flight zones.Ê It would be sufficient if those flights were suspended during the U2 overflights.Ê Allegations that trucks had left sites before the arrival of inspection teams were unfounded.Ê Inspection teams, after all, arrived unannounced, and UNMOVIC and the IAEA had their own resources for surveillance.

    Programmes for weapons of mass destruction were not like an aspirin pill easily hidden.Ê Such programmes required huge facilities which could not be concealed, and inspectors, criss-crossing the country had not found them. Regarding the sound recordings, he said scientific and technical progress had allowed for fabrication of such allegations.Ê As for the alleged relationship between Iraq and Al Qaeda, he said that, recently, Saddam Hussein had said that if such relationship had existed, he would not have been ashamed to admit it.Ê Such a relationship did not exist, he had said.

    Analysts at the CIA had complained that administration officials had exaggerated reports on that issue, he said.Ê Mr. Straw of the United Kingdom had set aside intelligence reports from his own Government asserting that such a relationship did not exist.Ê Mr. Powell's assertion that Iraq had used chemical weapons against his own people was surprising.Ê A CIA official had recently stated that the United States Administration had known since 1998 that Iraq had not used such weapons for the simple reason it did not have the weapons used in the mentioned incident.

    The clear goal of the Council meeting today and Mr. Powell's presentation was to sell the idea of war against Iraq without any legal, moral or political justification, he said.Ê He reiterated Iraq's commitment to continue proactive cooperation with the inspection teams so they could verify as soon as possible that Iraq was free of weapons of mass destruction in order for unjust sanctions to be lifted.Ê Regional security could be ensured by disarming weapons of mass destruction in the Middle East, including the huge arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in Israel, in accordance with the provisions of paragraph 14 of Council resolution 687 (1991).

    http://www.arabicnews.com/ansub/Daily/Day/030206/2003020610.html
     
  8. hypewaders Save Changes Registered Senior Member

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    Colin Powell is a fitting representative of the United States, indeed personifying this country in many ways. In particular, the Secretary of State is providing a powerful demonstration of the dynamics of political capital. No matter how well-earned, true respect that is stockpiled, then expended as moral equity, legitimizing deliberate deceptions, can never be replenished. Once this distinguished American's reputation has sadly been sacrificed by Executive Order, he will be a tragic vestige of the figure he once was- a man who once could have easily claimed the US Presidency on an unprecedented groundswell of nearly universal respect, at home and worldwide. This ever-faithful soldier, whose unshakeable discipline has now collided with his wisdom, is an illuminating example of a country that has apparently misplaced its never-perfect moral compass.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2003
  9. RichardJA Banned Banned

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    Spare a thought for Blair, he's been caught, now let's hope Bush and his people get caught for the liars they are. Note this part in the article, British ministers have privately admitted that gathering information on Iraq is extremely difficult and intelligence on Baghdad is "thin."


    Blair Under Fire For
    Plagiarized Iraq Dossier
    By Dominic Evans
    2-7-3

    LONDON (Reuters) - British Prime Minister Tony Blair was accused Friday of playing the same propaganda games as Saddam Hussein after chunks of an "intelligence" dossier on Iraq turned out to have been plagiarized from academic papers.

    The dossier, published this week on a government Web site, said Iraq had mounted a massive campaign to deceive and intimidate U.N. inspectors hunting for banned weapons.

    The latest in a series of British documents focusing on the alleged threat from Saddam and rallying support for a possible U.S.-led war, it was praised by Secretary of State Colin Powell in the U.N. Security Council Wednesday.

    It claimed to draw upon "a number of sources, including intelligence material." But Friday, officials admitted whole swathes were lifted word for word -- grammatical slips and all -- from a student thesis.

    Outraged politicians jumped on the revelation to accuse Blair of misleading the public and said it cast doubt on the credibility of his whole case against Saddam.

    "This is the sort of thing that Saddam Hussein himself issues," fumed opposition Liberal Democrat Jenny Tonge.

    One of Blair's former junior defense ministers, Peter Kilfoyle, said he was shocked that the government was trying to win over Britons on such "thin evidence."

    "It just adds to the general impression that what we have been treated to is a farrago of half-truths, assertions and over-the-top 'spin'," he told BBC radio.

    INTELLIGENCE IS "THIN"

    Glen Rangwala, an Iraq specialist at Cambridge University who analyzed the Downing Street dossier, told Reuters that 11 of its 19 pages were "taken wholesale from academic papers."

    "If the nature of the intelligence is actually just Web research, then it rather casts doubt about the plausibility of the government's earlier claims," said Rangwala, a critic of U.S. and British policy on Iraq.

    Sections in the dossier on Saddam's security apparatus drew heavily on an article written last year by Ibrahim al-Marashi, an American postgraduate student of Iraqi descent who works at the Monterey Institute of International Studies in California.

    "I was a bit disenchanted because they never cited my article," Marashi told BBC radio.

    "... any academic, when you publish anything, the only thing you ask for in return is that they include a citation of your work. There are laws and regulations about plagiarism that you would think the UK Government would abide by," he said.

    Experts who pored over the document said it also lifted material from articles published in 1997 and 2002 in Jane's Intelligence Review.

    British ministers have privately admitted that gathering information on Iraq is extremely difficult and intelligence on Baghdad is "thin."

    Rangwala said the document was sloppy and appeared to have been pulled together in a hurry.

    Copyright © 2003 Reuters Limited. All rights reserved. Republication or redistribution of Reuters content is expressly prohibited without the prior written consent of Reuters. Reuters shall not be liable for any errors or delays in the content, or for any actions taken in reliance thereon.
     
  10. Dwayne D.L.Rabon Registered Senior Member

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    Here's the center question that every one has to ask to weigh the current situation with Iraq and any other country.

    ARE WEAPONS NESSACARY TO THE SECURITY OF A COUNTRY?

    the awnser to that question is yes, and this is why we North Korea building nuclear weapons, korea builds weapons because the USA has demonstarted that it is a threat to that country, the same will exist for iraq exspecially given the past actions of the USA and itas current actions, here it will not matter if saddam is ruler or another. as after such a direct exsperince by a group of people to such acts they will remember and devise a meathod for weapons, even without the iraq goverments help, the people will form a group, a private group of persons that will search for a means to strike at the enemy, exspecially so when some child or loved ones have been killed. Revenge! thats the bottom line.
    Goverment can not controll such actions of the public, they can't controll it in the USA or any where else in another country.
    Example: tell you what i am a smart man and if you or any one else commits such a act to hurt my children i would see you to your end regardless of the esatblished goverment,of the USA. sending a mail bomb is the least that i could do. ect........
    Goverments are made up of people, that have the desire to do what they what when they want, and it is rare that we get a entire group of people in goverment any where in the world that is deicated to soild postive development and searching and eliminating social problems ect.....
    The Iraq goverment maintains a milatary force for the purpose of defending its people, just as many countries do. if it appears that a hostil group of people of another goverment have focused on violent actions against the people of iraq then it is the duty of the iraq milatry to defend, by any means possible. that includes nuclear weapons, biological weapons, conventional weapons ect..., their is no standing goverment in the world that would say that they would not do the same, as a person if i was saddam i would seek every possible venture to see the securtiy of the people of iraq.
    Clearly after all we can see that iraq and other countries have not been so intrested in developing weapons this is becasuse they rely on the basics of nature which is that humans are trying more to conquer the enviroment for resouces rather that war and so more at peace. take a good look at this countrrys where the enviroment is harsh are busy woth other events than war parctices, for this reason it has always been easy for those used to war practice to needless murder and conquer, just a simple review of history would dhow you this. I raq has not yet devel;oped into a war power because it has been preoccupied with other motives.
    Evenso it seems that iraq might have had the idea of a unified arab nation, meaning the development of a arab super power.
    but under any event the arab world is pretty unifed by the ISLAM relgion as we can see from what happens. the reality is that a unifed political arab nation is what is needed for arab peoples, to be effective in the world as a benifit to the regional people, what has occurred is that this has been cemente as not going to happen due to two factors the fear of the saudi ruling monarchy,and the power of iran. this seperation of arab nations is a benifit to other nations and super powers rather than the arabs of the region and will be so apparently in the coming future. plainly the power play that occures is that is that Iraq was attacked for enforcing kuwait a providence of iraq to pay its normal tributes to the iraq state. Plainly kuwait has alway been a providence of iraq, and was a particpant to iraq govermental decsions prior to the invasion of the USA. it was because of oil and the association of kuwait with england, where for many years england had postal and port establishment with the prince and roayle family of kuwait for many years dating back to 1800s, it was this stop that built englands strength and assocaition with INDIA, this put kuwait on the map for european countries as a seperate country, however it has alway been a part of iraq, the presence of oil set the USA to go to war with englands encorage ment. from the start the international community has violated another country namely IRAQ, for controll of oil interest.
    As the arab world is being preyed upon by other nations in a very serious way, destroying the normal iraq monarchy system would allow the rest of the world to controll the oil market, and not arabs, and yes saddam is the crown king of iraq, not because he took it but because he was crowned by the former king of iraq.
    the other postion that exist for attacking iraq is gaining controll of oil that is curical to the peoples rebulic of china, by this means nato powers look to eliminate a ally of china,where IRAQ was the fourth largest army in the world, and weaken chinas ablity to operate as a country using oil, the same exist for attcking N. Korea. Plainly a USA presence on the India ocean is a threat to india and china. but worst of all it slaves arabs to eurpoean descsions.
    Check it where was the UN or Nato, or the USA when Rawanda murdered millions in Africa in a matter of a year, more than a million people where stood in pits and shot down, and buried, eruope has not exspenced such not even in World War 2, Hitler did not compare to what was done in Rwanda.
    This in gerneral says something about whos is really interested in human interest. now does'nt

    DWAYNE D.L.RABON
     
  11. hypewaders Save Changes Registered Senior Member

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    Dwayne, you are not easy to follow. I believe you are however, mostly, correct.
     
  12. Adam §Þ@ç€ MØnk€¥ Registered Senior Member

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    I hear Iraq is arranging a formal response to Powell's speech, to be presented to the United Nations this coming week. I'm looking forward to reading that.
     
  13. Amp Registered Senior Member

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  14. Adam §Þ@ç€ MØnk€¥ Registered Senior Member

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    Amp

    Nice links, thanks!
     
  15. TheAZCowBoy Banned Banned

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    US/Israel: Biggest threats to peace in the ME and the world!

    As we watch US prez DIM BULB and his four horsemen of the Apocaplype ( Cheney, Perle, Wolfkowitz and Rumsfeld ) point America towards another war, we can only surmise that these draft dodging CHICKEN HAWK cowards will go to the ends of the world to make war with an impotent Iraq as Israel does with the downtrodden and quite impotent Palestinian people.

    Never have so many men and materials been simultanously expended by this nation to make that 1/2 acre of Zionist hell feel safer in a world full of hate for the ZioNazi parasites and trespassers.

    As the LIKUDNIK thugs and murders--and their sponsors--the USA--continue in their rush towards WW III, we can only hope that the people of Iraq, Syria and Iran can put enough IRBM nuclear/chemical throw weight in the air in the coming weeks to make this "Sh!tty little country of zealots and Zionist head thumpers," a mass of radioactive kosher dust polluting the stratosphere.

    Yes, DIM BULB, you will start this war--but indeed, you will not finish it because by 2004 the American people will have wised up to your hare brained right wing idea's and will have sent you packing where you belong: "To build your presidential libray on some parcel of confiscated Palestinian land in Jerusalem--next to that nest of ZioNazi thugs and murders, the Knesset LIKUDNIK thugs.

    TheAZCowBoy,

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2003
  16. Fukushi -meta consciousness- Registered Senior Member

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    It's been a long time since this thread was burried.

    Now even Powel is backing off his presentation before the security counsel,...

    question is: who decided to give false information? CIA? man: Bush = the cia!

    and about the money: it's costing 5$ billion dollars every month! !! !! !!

    Now where are those wmd? they must have hidden them somewhere,...

    Gosh, for that amount of money, I would have come up a pre-planted atom bomb: hey look what we find here!? Saddam Saddam, you have been a naughty boy.

    but no such thing.
     
  17. hypewaders Save Changes Registered Senior Member

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    Too complicated. In order to understand what has been transpiring, it is necessary to realize that these are an incompetent group, and/because their superiors are very angry at them (& no they are not from another planet, dimension, culture, or ideology).

    So far as instincts for a radical takeover, they were brilliant. But then in a landslide of new Executive Power, key Policy-Busheviks fucked up rather badly and (in their own hindsight even) ignominously. Now in their politically busted new awareness, these apparatchiks are becoming increasingly dysfunctional, some even disloyal. I do not exaggerate when I say that I am convinced that any High School acting troop could outperform the Bush Cabinet in carrying out their Constitutional responsibilities. This would be because the High School team could probably communicate with each other for the rest of the Term. They can play the game until the Endless Summer. But No: W is panicking, and many close people are also panicking about the same things.

    In this present fibrillating state, CabinetCorp does not have the maneuverability to negotiate its own wake, or to evade the blowback their policies have conspicuously created. They circle around the issues and inevitably run smack into their own metastasizing path of destruction like armed, drunken, and dangerous boaters, or like a young (insert neighbor, aquaintance, lover, spouse, parent etc.) of yours is horribly maimed by an IUD in Damascus. Yes, Damascus if Bush is not impeached and removed by resignation.

    Because such clearly attributable blowback, highly damaging, will always cause multiplying leaks just below the NeoConfidence waterline. Leaks result in judicially-understood culpability in high places. Shortly followed by the obligatory media (and mid-term election) frenzy. Shortly followed by the unthinkable for many wealthy and powerful people.

    This is why the Republican Party is experiencing acute indigestion. This is why the Republican Party will soon vomit the Fortunate-Son-in-Chief right onto the sidewalk for all to see plainly. This is why the secondary spasms will further expunge a mushy gray side-order of neocons and evangelicals.

    And to all of you who mentally downloaded neocongame.exe all I can say is "Bon Apetit". Please, not on my Blue Suedes dude.
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2005
  18. Baron Max Registered Senior Member

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    ...LOL! But that's gonna happen even if no one does any-fuckin'-thing! He can't be elected again no matter what the hell happens ....good, bad or otherwise. So.....?

    Hype, if you just never say anything about President Bush again, your wishes will come true. So why do you keep saying those things??? What do you have to gain by making such accusations without evidence?

    Baron Max
     
  19. hypewaders Save Changes Registered Senior Member

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    Because your perceptions are temporarily influenced, you are incapable of recognizing what you will when there is a "purge in the party" not unlike the ones kremlinologists once observed.

    OK, minus the literal bullets to the head. But politically, this will be just as final for the "neoconservatives". You will denounce them, Baron. I defy you to return here in 2008 and confront this topic anew. There, in 2008 is my reward. But until then, I will devote every waking minute to my "communist plot".

    Dubya's stock is circling the drain.
     
  20. Baron Max Registered Senior Member

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    Yes, his term of office will be done! What more do you want?

    Baron Max
     
  21. hypewaders Save Changes Registered Senior Member

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    The reversal of his highly irresponsible policies, and highly-beneficial, accelerated American adaptation to a fast-changing world.
     
  22. Baron Max Registered Senior Member

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    23,053
    Then ye're gonna' need a lot more than just a change of presidents! If ye're gonna' make drastic changes in the entire system, you need to get rid of the old, OLD power structure of the congress. Too many people think that the president holds the power in America, and that's just too damned WRONG. The congress holds the power ....to change the government, you MUST change the congress. President Baron Max couldn't change the American government if he had to fight with the congress!!

    Baron Max
     
  23. Hurricane Angel I am the Metatron Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    471
    He, along with the rest of the population with a brain, wants him out before his term ends in 2008.

    Also, I noticed you didn't read the articles they posted.
     

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