More useless squatters to be evicted from East Jerusalem

Discussion in 'World Events' started by Alien Cockroach, Oct 1, 2010.

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  1. nirakar ( i ^ i ) Registered Senior Member

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    You have no interest in reality.
     
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  3. IamJoseph Banned Banned

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    Reality based question: Which is the Jewish homeland?

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  5. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

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    I wonder how they got so paranoid, it was not like Palestinians would just walk up to them and explode, oh wait it was!
     
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  7. nirakar ( i ^ i ) Registered Senior Member

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    No not reality based sorry. Keep trying.


    Your homeland is the land you know or the land you are comfortable in. For the most part homelands are fictions like races and nations and religions and identities are fictions.

    You are what you are, where you are exactly now. You are not a group. There is nobody else just like you. Nobody is more or less important than anybody else. Important for which purpose? And that purpose for which purpose?

    The Palestinians are not Palestinians and they are not Arabs, they are just a bunch of people who happen to be more descended from the previous people who lived in Israel than anybody else is. But it does not matter who lived in Israel 500 years ago or who lived in Israel 30,000 years ago. The land does not care and God does not care.

    Jews are not Jews and are not Middle-Easterners or Europeans or Americans. Jews are just people. Neither God nor the Holocaust nor the exceptional intellectual achievements of Jews makes the Jews anything more than just more people.

    There is no Jewish homeland and there is no Palestinian homeland. There is an idea of land. It is these ideas of a land that most Jews and most Palestinians feel an attachment to.

    I could diverge into the economic function of "private property" or the emotions that wolves feel towards "their" territory; but what is the point when you have little interest in anything I might say and also have little interest in reality. You love your religious identity and it compels you to write these strange things you write with little regard for whether what you say is the truth. I am compelled to write strange things by my own version of weirdness but my weirdness includes love of truth.

    But nanny nanny boo boo, I am proud too because I get off on how much closer to the truth my flawed version of reality is. I am willing to give up all my other stupid prides if I can just hold on to being truer. Now aren't I sick just like you? Pride is sick because it leads to hatred and delusion.

    Yes I am sick, but I still am truer because I don't have as many of those other prides and conformities to force me to not see what is before me.

    I will be happy if you prove me wrong by showing more loyalty to truth than to your religion. You can't be loyal to both. You have to chose truth or loyalty. Even loyalty to truth creates a bit of blindness. Loyalty is blinding and makes it difficult to see truth. Belief is blinding. Desire is blinding. Desire, pride, belief and loyalty are closely related to each other.

    If we are going to honestly play, justice, and rights as in "somebody is entitled by universal standards of human morality to have ownership of something" then the Palestinian claim to Israel is superior to the Jewish claim. I am not saying that the Jewish claim in this imaginary world of ideas is a bad claim. It's just not as good of a claim as the claim that the Palestinians have in this imaginary world of ideas.

    In our standard human morality if we chose to be objective we see that the Balfour Declaration was immoral because it failed to recognize that by any objective standard of morality that land should belong to the people who were living there and neither the British, nor Ottoman, nor world governing bodies, nor the international Jewish diaspora had any moral claim of comparable quality to the Palestinian moral claim to the right to govern that land that people who think they are Jews and people who think they are Palestinians are fighting over.

    But in reality I can find no evidence that either the land or God give a damn which pack of wolves think they are owners of which part of the so called Holy Land.

    In reality whoever controls access to the land controls access to the land and morality is just a myth just as Jews and Palestinians are myths. If you believe them they are real; if you don't believe them they don't exist.

    If Jews want to drive the Palestinians out of their homeland so that the Jews can have that land as their homeland then the Jews won't be doing anything significant different than what my puritan ancestors did. I can walk up to several still standing homes that my ancestors built at around 1700 but I have no moral right to claim them as my homeland. I can and do claim them as part of my ancestral history but I can't claim to have a moral or legal right to possess these homes. My ancestors built these homes with their hands yet that gives me no rights to these homes so how can anybody claim rights to the land their ancestors walked on?

    I can only visit the nations that my ancestors immigrated from if their governments will grant me a visa. So much for homelands.

    Israel/Palestine is a homeland for Palestinians and Jews but homelands are fictions. I can never go back to the "hometown" of my youth. That town shaped me and made me what I am, but I can't go back. The town has changed and I have changed. There was no internet in my hometown and none of the people are the same.

    Nobody says that Massachusetts should be given back to the people that my ancestors stole it from. Their descendants are few and their nations have been destroyed. Right now the Palestinian claim to Israel is still morally superior to the Jewish claim, but If you just scatter the Palestinians and push them out of their homeland then 100 years from now the Jewish Israelis will have the better claim to Israel as their homeland than the Palestinian diaspora will for the same reasons that the Palestinians have the better claim to Israel now.

    If you are gone for a thousand years for whatever reason, interbreed with the people in your new lands and then come back and claim ownership of the land because "god gave it to you" then you are a rude creep who will be unwelcome. The only person who might put up with that sort of behavior from me is my mother.

    Homelands need to become outdated ideas. There has been too much fighting over land.
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2010
  8. IamJoseph Banned Banned

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    Go tell that to 57 Islamic states. But it seems you have decided not to respond to the Q by faking selective dementia. Once more with feelings:

    Reality based question: Which is the Jewish homeland?

    "WE WILL NEVER SUPPORT THE RETURN OF THE JEWS TO THEIR HOMELAND BECAUSE THEY REJECTED JC"
     
  9. IamJoseph Banned Banned

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    Europe has become a farce. It is obsessed in contriving an equivalence of its own horrific past by fostering the worst falsehoods against Jews in Geo-History. Europe does not use gas chambers anymore but UN Letterheads. My bet is all its plans will backfire and reverse its intended target - and the WE WERE NOT AWARE chant will sound again. At least the Nazis were honest about it.
     
  10. Alien Cockroach Banned Banned

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    The Pals are hypocrites. Not all of them, but a lot of them were planted there by the Arabic Legion of Transjordan specifically to keep Jews from going back to their old neighborhoods. How are they different from Jewish settlers in West Bank? Not by much, except their shitty, fatalistic culture makes them helpless to take care of themselves or build anything functionally resembling a modern economy; oh, and they are so shitty they blame the Jews for their problems even where it's completely unjustified.

    Frankly, I'm fed up with the hypocrisy, so any god damn sympathy I might have had for the Pals is gone, baby, gone.

    I remember one time I tried to say, "Well, I disagree with Netanyahu's policies, and I disagree with Kadima on East Jerusalem because building in the area is unnecessarily inflammatory." And I was called a racist!

    Do you want to know WHY I was called a racist? Because apparently, because I was addressing the issue from the perspective of Israeli policy, I cared more about "Israel's image" than about some Palestinians. So obviously, I must think it's okay to wipe out a whole "race" of people.

    Well, fuck you, assholes. Seriously, fuck your whole side of the issue if that's how you fucks are going to be.

    I remember one time I tried to point out to somebody that Arabs are the majority in the Middle East, and they can be just as oppressive toward minorities as any European. Duh, they are just as flesh-and-blood human as people you find anywhere else. I was called a racist for that!

    Well, if that's the way of it, you fucking jerks, bulldoze Palestinian slums, and build hotels on the rubble!
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2010
  11. Alien Cockroach Banned Banned

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    Yeah, and who did you find to dig up facts for your ungrateful congregation of ninnies while I was hitting the gym?

    Hey, it's not that I don't sympathize at all with the Palestinians, but I'll be damned if someone is going to call me a "racist" just because I'm not going to join the "burn Israel" mob. Go to Hell, jerks. It's not that I'm not sympathetic on some level with the Pals, but I think there is something wrong with this picture when I'm not allowed to also be sympathetic with the Jews. So many of you have made such a cartoon villain out of Israel, you have no sense of perspective whatsoever. When someone tries to point out to you that the picture is more complex than that, you start making dumbass accusations. Seriously, if you are going to be like that, go to Hell.

    The history of the region, from the late 1800s onward, is very complicated, and you can't just give a surface reading of it and say you understand it. I don't fully understand it. Everytime I go digging for infomation on the subject, I find that something I thought I understood was totally different from what I originally thought, and I have to revise my whole picture of things.

    And it's frustrating that you fucks are here parrotting fucking propaganda for one side as if you're God's bullhorn to the world, and you don't do one fucking iota of investigation beyond that. Can't you understand at all why that would piss me off? I think you're lazy and shitty because you shoot off without having any idea about the background behind the issue.

    You know, the only horse I have in this race is that I don't want anymore passenger liners flown into American high-rises. How can that be arranged? Because, disbarring that, everyone involved in the mess can go fuck themselves for all I'm concerned.
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2010
  12. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

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    Not talking about just the palestinians they little don't trust ANYBODY. like when they come over here for military training on some of the simulators all the americans have to LEAVE THE BUILDING
     
  13. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

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    I was not talking about the Palestinians either, its just a matter of psychology that the Israelis could become paranoid about everyone from the attacks of a few.

    IamJoseph,

    Yeah, when and if Israel falls.
     
  14. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

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    yes you were.
    it probably has more to do with the culture of victimhood

    its a when
     
  15. nirakar ( i ^ i ) Registered Senior Member

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    Well the long nuanced philosophically truthful approach did not go over well.


    Lets try the unuanced version.
    "Land without a people for a people without a land" was a lie.

    Palestinians are the stolen from and Israeli Jews are the thieves.

    Anybody who tries to make the Jews the victims and the Palestinians the victimizers is wrong. Jews were victimized by other people. In Israel by WW1 most of the Jews wanted to steal from the Palestinians.
     
  16. Alien Cockroach Banned Banned

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    @nirakar

    Let me try to put this in the simplest terms that I can.

    1) The villain/victim dichotomy here is misleading.

    -a) Part of the meaning behind that is that we are discussing several different parcels of land as if it were all one parcel of land. This is misleading. You could point to one case and figure that the Palestinians are in the right and the Israelis are in the wrong, but then someone else could turn up another case and figure the contrary, that the Palestinians are in the wrong and the Israelis have been treated unfairly. The point is, there is more than one parcel of land at stake here.

    -b) In some cases, the land was arguably bought by the other at a fair price. But then we get into hairy problems such as the legality of the sale and so on etc..

    -c) There is disagreement over the validity of land that was bought, sold and partitioned under the Arabic government of Transjordan. The UK and one other country recognizes this government's authority, but it is not accepted universally.

    2) The restrictions on goods going in and out of Gaza Strip, enforced by the government of Israel, are widely misunderstood. It's not an absolute embargo or blockade, but it has been portrayed as such. Israel has attempted to slow down the trafficking of certain materials that could be used to create makeshift weapons.

    And what I consider to be the most obnoxious is that the people here who are supporters of the Palestinians tend to label you a racist if you even attempt to correct them on the details of their position. If you are not unquestioningly accepting the line that Israel is some great satan and the Palestinians are entirely innocent here, there are many people involved in this discussion who simply can't live with that.

    I also suggest that you investigate the socio-political concept of "nativism" and where this sort of thinking has gone in the past.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nativism_(politics)

    You, Nirakar, are attempting to force upon the issue a false dichotomy where one side must be the villain and the other side must be the victim. It is not only wrong, but I simply consider you to be an altogether unprincipled and untrustworthy person. It is a tactic that has been used ad nauseum in polemic, and it is as shoddy now as it has always been.
     
  17. Alien Cockroach Banned Banned

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    What is really pissing off here to me is that people around here are making the pretension that this issue is more clear-cut than it actually is. It's NOT. There is a lot of detail that you have to consider here, a lot of background, and you are making opinions based on ignorance if you don't bother to investigate it.

    The simple answer is more popular because it is easier for people to understand, but it is also wrong.
     
  18. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

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    Your getting pissed because we won't let Israel get away with its crimes which is what your demanding. your demanding despite having all the power and have committed some of the worst crimes on the books that they are the victims. we palestinian supporters recognize that sometimes things have been bad for some Israelis but that doesn't absolve the Israeli people and the Israeli state from it crimes which is basically what your doing. your opening post completely whitewashed and ignored the crimes of Israel against the palestinian people. so take your hypocritical whining and shove it.
     
  19. nirakar ( i ^ i ) Registered Senior Member

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    Homelands are BS and I don't care what nonsense comes out of Pope's mouth.

    There is no such thing as homelands but if we must use that retarded evil concept then Israel/Palestine Is the homeland two anybody who has lives there now, anybody who has lived there for five years ever, anybody born there and anybody who's ancestor was born, lived most their live there and died there all within the last 150 years.

    There has to be a cut off point in time for claiming ancestors homelands. Don't worry this actually favors your precious Jews by making "facts on the ground" become accepted once they are in place long enough. It is sort of like a statute of limitations on crimes. If you get get justice in 150 years you have to drop the case because the surviving descendants are too far removed in time from the victims and victimizers. But while the descendants of todays Israeli Jews should be allowed to keep their acquisitions if the can hold on to them for another 100 years history should never absolve these generations of Jews and Americans and Brits for the crime they committed against the Palestinians and history should never absolve Hitler's generation of Germans for the greater crime that they committed against Jews.

    Your dream of Jewish entitlement based on being the chosen people is every bit as deluded as Hitler's dream of German entitlement based on Germans being the Master Race .

    You defend racist lies and racist criminality because you are a Jewish racist. That is what racism does. It is what Racism made Nazi Germans do and now it is what racism makes Zionist Jews do.
     
  20. nirakar ( i ^ i ) Registered Senior Member

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    Which do you like better over simplified truth like my post 32 which looses accuracy for simplicities sake or my overly accurate post 24 which loses clarity for accuracy's sake.

    Which is better clarity or truthfulness?

    The truth is that the whole situation is violent and dishonest because humans are violent and dishonest by their natures and the entire surrounding religious and historical and recent geopolitical contexts for the Israeli/Palestinian dispute are filled with layer after layer of deception, self-deception and violence and delusions of grandeur.
     
  21. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

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    As an example of a larger problem.

    Maybe :shrug:

    Yeah, if it when the human race get replace by robots it won't really matter then now will it?
     
  22. IamJoseph Banned Banned

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    I am betting on the blind, your resume concerning any anxst of 57 corrupt Islamic homelands that bar Jews, is:

    "BLANK".
     
  23. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Alien Cockroach:

    I tried reading your post, but what I mostly noticed was this:

    I think you need to "hit the gym" a bit more and work on your anger issues.
     
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