Capitalism... What the hell?

Discussion in 'Business & Economics' started by Anarcho Union, Oct 21, 2010.

  1. Carcano Valued Senior Member

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    Competition is usually associated with GREED among socialists...when its actually the great antidote to greed.

    For example, if by government decree you were established as the ONLY furniture producer in the economy you would naturally bump up your prices to make an outragous profit margin.

    Why? Because you're greedy...and because you can!
     
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  3. Mr MacGillivray Banned Banned

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    And ironically modern capitalism leads to monopolist corporations.
     
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  5. Carcano Valued Senior Member

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    Only in the absence of potent antitrust laws.

    One of the most powerful monopolies of the 20th century was Rockefeller's Standard Oil...which was forced by the government to split into 34 companies in 1911.
     
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  7. Mr MacGillivray Banned Banned

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    One of the most powerful monopolies in the 20th century was microsoft. It still is with 91% of the market share. That is more than standard oil ever had.
     
  8. Carcano Valued Senior Member

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    Yes, its been found to be in violation of antitrust laws many times.
     
  9. Mr MacGillivray Banned Banned

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    And yet nothing changes. Which leads us back to my first post.

    And ironically modern capitalism leads to monopolist corporations.

    thank you for proving my point.
     
  10. Carcano Valued Senior Member

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    Your point is proven only in that the antitrust Sherman Act (1890) has not been employed as it was originally intended approx. since the 1970s...other than that it works fine.
     
  11. madanthonywayne Morning in America Registered Senior Member

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    You're not really saying that China has created a better economic system, simply that they are using capitalism along with an authoritarian government.
     
  12. Mr MacGillivray Banned Banned

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    If it doesn't work, it doesn't work. A piece of paper doesn't compensate for something not working.
     
  13. Billy T Use Sugar Cane Alcohol car Fuel Valued Senior Member

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    It can be characterized that way, but it is a hugely different system.

    It is a hybrid of the old USSR's central planning of infrastructure and the free market place deciding what consumer goods are produced. True to have a 50 year time horizon for scientific* development of infrastructure you need a strong authoritian government - one with a great deal of stability (not one whose policy flip flops every four or eight years as is likely to happen again this November 2)

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    * "Scientific" as in China engineers study the problems and make rational, economic plans for their solution. (This is possible because all but one of the leadership of the CCP has been educated in engineering. That one exception is a geologist. Thus they can properly manage and evaluate the plans developed by task forces, such as the high-speed rail, task force, etc.)

    In the US, infrastructure is decided by lawyers. (At least 90% of Congressmen were educated as lawyers and 100% of the highest levels in the administration were.) Most projects are the result of "horse trading" of favors which will help get the project authors re-elected.

    Many years ago when US plans for the next generation high energy lab/ accelerator were being discussed (a very expensive project requiring at least a decade of construction, which was never done) Some Wags forecast that it would be a linear accelerator. To achieve the energy levels desired, that linear accelerator would need to be more and 1000 miles long.

    The wags pointed out that it could pass thus more than a dozen states, whereas a circular machine, like LHC which the US later helped fund in Europe, could be confined to only one state and that much money would never be appropriated by Congress for only one state. Hence, if US were to build the next generation accelerator by itself, it had to be a linear accelerator to get Congressional funding.

    That just illustrates how infrastructure is planned in the US -Rational, technical considerations are of much lower importance that in which state the money will be spent. With horse trading, this system produces the "bridge to nowhere" etc. as many need to get a piece of the funding pie.
     
  14. madanthonywayne Morning in America Registered Senior Member

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    I think many of the ills of American society can be laid at the feet of lawyers. We badly need tort reform, loser pays, etc. Of course, this problem goes back at least to Shakespear's time (first, kill all the lawyers)
    The super conducting super collider was funded and construction was well advanced, but it was canceled by idiot Republicans at a point in the construction in which closing it down cost as much as finishing it. It was such an irrational decision that a Scifi author wrote an excellent story (Einstein's Bridge) to explain it. That pissed me off almost as much as Obama's "temporary" cancelation of the US manned space program.
    I agree our political system is broken. But it's my opinion that it is in the nature of government to fuck up. Yes, China appears to be in a period of temporary relatively good government. And a powerful, well run, central government can do some good.

    But such periods are few and far between. Much better to limit government to the bare minimum to mitigate the damage it can do in the much more common periods of bad government. As Jefferson said, the government that governs best, governs least. And as Reagan said, A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have.
     
  15. Billy T Use Sugar Cane Alcohol car Fuel Valued Senior Member

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    Well without a well educated population any form of government can go bad, but some of the best, by almost any measure are with very active governments, lots of taxes and regulations.

    For example Sweden. They have a balanced budget for 2011, low debt, three years longer life expectancy, greater social freedoms, women voted 100 years before they could in the US and several have been head of state. etc. Norway too, but you could claim that is because of their oil, but it was true long before oil and gas was found. Last week the Swedish central bank had to raise interest rates as growth was getting out of control.* Too bad the US is not more like that socialist state.

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    * http://www.thelocal.se/29828/20101026/ And today’s NYT article starts:
    “…Sweden is a northern European country that is seen by many people as a guardian of liberalism and tolerance …”

    From: http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/international/countriesandterritories/sweden/index.html
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 28, 2010
  16. stratos Banned Banned

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    His even more extreme first draft didn't quite scan.
     

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