Unless America Is the World, Now In the United States, they are exceedingly rare. And given that this discussion is about the United States Transportation Security Administration and how it regulates American airports—and, I suppose, I should throw in the two specific references to TSA in the two paragraphs in question—I admit that I didn't think the context of Skeptical's statement was particularly difficult. I was wrong.
:bugeye: This is largely an idiotic approach to looking at a significantly complex and necessary form of preventative procedures... So far I have agreed with Arthur on everything and I have concluded that this reactionary response to new TSA screening mandates is a childish fear of having xray photos on the internet or a clinical hand brush your inner thigh. The TSA has adapted its security measures in line with new threats from every avenue, terrorist, or simply violent individuals. I have never been groped, I am sorry if you feel you have, but it is all in the eye of the beholder I suppose... I truly think if you have issues with security checks, you should stay in your basement and watch the travel channel and calculate your chance of being struck by lightening. It is the people who resist the security checks that hold up the lines and make it a longer experience than necessary, going through the metal detector 5 times becuase they "forgot" to take off thier belts, shoes, coats, or comply with any of the other simple and widely known security requirements. So please stay home, and my already brief security lines will shrink to nothing!
Yeah, but you included the years when there wasn't very much air traffic (up until 1960) and then you included the two decades after screening was really ramped up (after the devestating bombings in the 80s) and we started to bring the rate down, but 9/11 showed us that we had become lax and had to make the process more professional. So no, I don't think you can find any study that shows that frequent air travelers are in favor of doing a "simplified" screening process. Arthur
Arthur. I am a frequent air traveller myself. I fly between 6 and 12 times per year on business. Admittedly not in the USA, which means I escape the excesses of the TSA. I go through our simplified security system, and do not complain. The x-rays and the groping are not needed, though, and represent an excessive intervention. The reason, as I said earlier, for 9/11, was that box knives were permitted on the plane. Simplified magnetic systems will pick up box knives or similar.
The last line of defense ... period We might also note that the Israelis are chuckling somewhat at TSA's excess. I'm still looking for the transcript, but Maddow interviewed a guy who helped design Israel's airport security, and not only does he think the groping and x-rays are excessive, he also thinks they're not helpful. I'll find that transcript. In the meantime, we should all thank the Transportation Security Administration for its valiant efforts to protect air passengers from the greatest threat the Universe has ever known: menstruating women. ____________________ Notes: Glad Rags. "TSA Groin Searches Menstruating Woman". November 24, 2010. Blog.GladRags.com. January 11, 2011. http://blog.gladrags.com/2010/11/24/tsa-groin-searches-menstruating-woman/
Israeli airport security gets invoked a lot in this context, but there are a few aspects of its effectiveness worth bearing in mind: 1) It relies heavily on ethnic profiling, in a polity where the ethnopolitical divisions are clear-cut. The vastly greater variety of different peoples and reasons for travelling in the US would make this impossible to replicate, even ignoring the ethical and legal aspects. 2) It's small-scale - only a single international airport, doing about as much traffic as the one in Puerto Rico. Any given major city in the US is on a different level of complexity entirely, and the national system as a whole is totally incomparable. It's like suggesting that the US should look to Qatar for pointers on how to run the interstate freeway system. 3) It's actually a lot more obtrusive than US security, overall. Emulating Israeli airport security would amount to having the FBI spend its time investigating everyone who buys an air ticket, and having the National Guard patrol the parking, entry and baggage areas of the airports with assault rifles. That they rely less on technological measures (and groping) at the actual departure gates shouldn't fool us - the other elements of their security system are so obtrusive and heavy-handed that most would be outright illegal in the USA.
No, you have to LOOK at all the carry on luggage, you can't rely on magnetics except on people and then you have to have them remove all metal and coats and shoes and even then you get quite a few false positives which slow things down and require a wanding/pat down. If you want to argue that the backscatter system is not needed, fine, but keep in mind that it is equal to extending your flight by only 3 minutes and it is not only faster and much harder to scam than doing the current magnetic screening, in that now we can actually look at EVERYTHING that is being brought on board. Again in just ONE airport in the US, 22 times as many people go through it in one year as live in your entire country, so clearly our system IS fast and efficient and do I got to keep reminding you, no one gets groped. Arthur
So, speaking purely hypothetically, if I were suicidal and wanted to bomb a plane, I could follow this plan. Select suitable plastique explosive and catalyst, and place them in the hollowed out heels of my shoes. Unscrew those heels on board, under the cover of a blanket over my knees. Place them together so that explosive and catalyst mix. Bang! Now, how may TSA detect this?
Well, your shoes are viewed under X-rayed and hollowed out shoes would look different. You go to pokey. Shoes go to bomb disposal. By the way, they also use sniffers to test for nitrogen compounds associated with high-explosives. Next
If the hollowing and stuffing is done right, the heels will look normal under x-ray. Sniffers detect nothing if careful sealing and cleaning of those heels are done first. Besides, you are now adding more security measures and more hold-ups. How many more do you want? Personally, I have never had to take off my shoes passing security. Of course, I have avoided the USA since 9/11.
I have never not had to remove my shoes when going through airport security... except maybe once in geneva, switzerland
Just learned that everything I bought from England over holidays is being held up by DHS because all packages in wake of printer bombing are impounded and scanned, etc. So thanks DHS. Won't be doing any international shipping now.
Oh no! Is it only DHL? Or all shipping companies? Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
All. Apparently all packages over a pound have to be searched. I will say I got my items today, though. So that's nice. I can cut and paste part of the email here if you would like?
Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! did arthur and skeptical reach an accord? I was enjoying watching the back and forth!
Bluebird In these forum arguments, accord is rarely reached. Even if someone is convinced, it is even rarer for someone to admit it. Speaking for myself, what usually happens is that I get sick of bashing my head against the proverbial brick wall, and just stop. It feels so good!
Here's lead underwear you can buy to defeat X-rays Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! http://www.rockyflatsgear.com/
Bluebird. Speaking for myself, everyone who was saying to abolish the TSA has admited that you have to screen people before you let them fly. None of them have said how that would be significantly different than the TSA approach though. They do seem to focus their animosity on the newest scanners that the TSA is just starting to deploy, the backscatter scanners, but of course scanning by them is optional. Arthur
