Pastor Terry Jones as a representative of American actions and values

Discussion in 'World Events' started by S.A.M., Apr 2, 2011.

  1. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

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    33,264
    Are the Muslims that killed the UN workers, burn the American flag and blow up American buildings indicative of all Muslims?
     
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  3. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    I think I've already said this before elsewhere but the solution for apathy cannot be found without.
    Thats probably how it will go regardless. There is not much you can do to combat a culture of

    entitlement + instant gratification - (unintended consequences)= apathy

    You realise of course that all Terry Jones has done is burn a book and express his opinion?
     
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  5. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    Please stop misrepresenting our legitimate war on militant Islamic fundamentalists and their allies. They are the enemies of every Iraqi and Afghan who ever hopes to have a say in how their countries are run. If we had a choice, the decision to simply hope all our problems go away on their own would have been cowardly and immoral.
     
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  7. Bells Staff Member

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    Hmmm and your line about America bringing them all those great things was what exactly?

    Unless of course you really believe that your guys are bringing them all those wonderful things? In which case.. *Snort*..

    I never said I did not.

    Have I?

    You still don't get it, do you?

    You came out with a line saying how great America has been for Afghanistan - while America is part of an invading force that is killing innocent civilians on a daily basis. Of course they're going to complain. What? Do you expect them to thank you for all that you have done for them?

    For whom?

    Us? Or them?

    Both?

    After all, we're invading their countries and killing innocent civilians. Surely we deserve a bit of edumucation ourselves, yes?

    Solution to what? Our zeal to invade their countries and kill their countrymen and women and children? Wait! There's a solution to that?

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    Yeah. I mean who gives a shit, right?

    Obviously them Muslims need to be educated about how we do things.. You know? How America is providing them with roads, schools, hospitals and all the rest of the yummy stuff while bombing the living shit out of them and having soldiers roam the countryside itching to murder innocent men, women and children. That's how we supersize things. Shock and bloody awe!

    Oh yeah baby!

    We'll just blame them because of their religion. We are not to blame for any of it. Nooo.. it's their religion that is causing us to kill them. Yeah, that's it.

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  8. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    Then Bells, you would have to be a pacifist, since any war has the danger of killing civilians.
     
  9. Bells Staff Member

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    24,270
    Certainly.

    But we are dealing with constant cases of soldiers deliberately seeking and targeting innocent civilians - for fun.
     
  10. yaracuy Banned Banned

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    364
    Why do we have a discussion over the publicity seeker bandit I even don't want to mention even his name

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  11. superstring01 Moderator

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    Are airplane hijacking terrorists, labia excising, female oppressing, pre-pubescent marrying, gay slaughtering, witch burning, honor killing, head. . . er. . . beheading non-contributing-to-anything-of-value--other-than-oil-to-modern-history wackos the "face of Islam"???

    See how this can go two really fun ways!?

    ~String
     
  12. superstring01 Moderator

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    12,110
    Oh. To the question: No. He's just a kook. You see them everywhere, see: Mecca.

    ~String
     
  13. chimpkin C'mon, get happy! Registered Senior Member

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    I found this comment of Michael's most disturbing...-ly truthful...although he forgot to add:
    "Or until we run out of money to do so."

    We don't seem to be doing a good job of giving the Afghans infrastructure-it would be nice if we did, especially hospitals and schools...and we kinda blew up the working infrastructure the Iraqis had...which-if our bombing is so precise, rather argues we blew up sewage treatment plants, power plants, and telephone exchanges deliberately.

    Why did we do that? and since we did, why haven't we competently rebuilt any of it? Halliburton was supposed to rebuild a few things, but they seem to have done an absolutely wretched job.

    I'm generally against wars of choice...although I'm far more nuanced than straight-line pacifism. Reality is complicated.

    I wanted us to go into Afghanistan, get Al'Qaida, and get out, since extradition didn't seem to be an option.
    And there was a lot of pretty decent evidence that was in the media that Bush's intel about WMD's in Iraq was very, very iffy, such that I didn't think it passed the "imminent threat" test.
    Why I marched, protested, and generally tried to stop said war.

    As far as oil goes...our history coming to bite us in the butt again. Our domestic production peaked in 1970, has been downhill ever since...since then we've chosen to design our economy to require a constant infusion of an import product.

    Where were all the conservatives saying : "That's an extremely dumb idea!"
     
  14. Trippy ALEA IACTA EST Staff Member

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    This putz is putting multi national 'non combat' personell[sup]1[/sup] at risk and is hiding behind the skirt that freedom of speech has become to do so.

    [sup]1[/sup]By non combat personell, I'm referring primarialy to (for example) the provincial reconstruction teams, and the other specialist groups that are there to do things like rebuild infrastructure, or provide various kinds of training to locals - as opposed to groups that are there for 'policing' activities of 'anti terrorist' combat activities.
     
  15. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    @Bells

    If you think Australians and Americans are intentionally killing Afghan women and children you are living in delusional land. If USA and AU troops wanted to kill Afghans, there's be 10s of millions of Afghans dead. The Afghans that are killed are killed unintentionally when attempting to kill criminal elements in the USA/AU protectorate. Something you support - with your lifestyle.

    If you really cared, you'd move there and try to make a difference. Or you'd at least be down to Canberra protesting the war on the steps. But, instead you're enjoying your McCafe' at your local chain Westfields.


    @chimpkin
    We can not run out of money as we utilize a fiat currency. We can destroy our economy. Which I think we are in the process of doing. This has nothing to do really with the wars and more to do with politics and Banksters. Good English and Germanic values of hard-work and long-term investment have given way to ME NOW, ME NOW, ME NOW, MEOW MEOW

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    I want my McLatte' NOW, I need to get on the Internet and complain about Imperialist Americans *slurp slurp*...


    RE: Education
    Actually, I think WE need to be educated.


    RE: Rebuilding Afghanistan
    We were attacked by people from Afghanistan on 9/11. After destroying their armies we don't owe them anything. Out of the good nature in the American heart we have attempted to help them to rebuild their cities (destroyed well before our limited 3 week war - they destroyed their own country in their own Civil War, but then neglected to rebuild). We don't tax them for being Muslim (as tradition holds Muslim do when they conquered an enemy). Instead, being Christian, Americans have Forgiven Afghans for their acts of petulance and are setting about long-terms attempts to civilize them. Something greatly appreciated by a large number of Afghans wanting to better their lot in life. Coincidentally we're building a large oil pipe line North to South through unused portions of our new lands. Which seems reasonable - I mean, you gots to have your McLatte'** right?



    ** Drinking McLatte' may cause penial dysfunction, birth defects, cancer and or any number of unGodsly diseases and is not endorsed by this thread post.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2011
  16. superstring01 Moderator

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    12,110
    I was told that I may have overshot the point a bit here. But to restate and clarify, my whole rambling above isn't to necessarily cast stones (well, except to annoy), but to highlight what many people think of when they hear "Islam" or "Arab". To be certain, I don't hold many religions in that high a light, but ultimately it's a folly to see more than a fringe side of the US when one sees the actions of Jones.

    Perhaps a better analogy of an opposing ad hom might be the reaction and deaths of others because of the book burning.

    Also, most of us, here in the US didn't even hear about the Koran burning until well after it happened (which, I think was the right thing). It's a book. It got burned. Life goes on.

    ~String
     
  17. octavian Registered Member

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    13
    To muslims, bombing children is significantly less important than violating their religion in a spectacular manner. I'm disgusted and appalled by the ignorance im seeing in these posts but then again, this is america, land of the whites, home of the ignorants.
    Side note:
    If they burned a macdonalds or what ever it is americans hold sacred (twin towers) we'd be up in arms
     
  18. octavian Registered Member

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    13
    You seem a tad confused

    Osama is from Saudi Arabia. Most of the bombers were Saudi. But Saudi arabia with its oil reserves controls us so we leave them alone. Also, who are we to "civilize" people? They have been living the way they live for thousands of years without us (sans soviet incident). To them, we are sinful pigs wasting away in opulence and greed.
    Also, Australia is not a legit country. I could invade australia with a water gun and take it over in a week. FRANCE wouldn't surrender to Australia. So U MAD
     
  19. Bells Staff Member

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    24,270
    They live in the land we put them in.

    You are clutching at so many straws trying to blame them for our wrong doing that you're sounding like Buffalo with his soundbites (ie the whole latte thing - makes you look like some kind of obsessive freak).

    Silly me.

    Damn Muslims should be thankful we've only killed thousands and thousands of them.

    Is that your excuse for Bravo Company?

    Well Mr America is bringing them the goodies while American soldiers are roaming the countryside murdering them and bombing their children, I hate to imagine what your lifestyle is that supports this.

    Could you be more pathetic with your debate style? Really?

    What is this obsession with coffee?

    And my lifestyle, dipshit, involves chemo and radiation therapy, along with throwing up to the point where my throat is raw, constant pain and trying to raise 2 children on my own.

    Actually no.

    We were attacked by people from Saudi Arabia on 9/11, with the exception of Fayez Banihammad who was from the United Arab Emirat.

    Queue soundbite. Tell me, do you raise a fist in the air when you say this shit?

    3 week war?

    Delusional much?

    At some point, I hope you will come to realise just how insulting you are being and yes, a bigot. They are not uncivilised. We helped bring about their destruction when your country's past Government helped fund the very man who then went on to plan the bombing of 9/11 and helped install the Taliban. That was your previous gift to Afghanistan, a previously well off country rich in history and cultural tradition and quite stunning. Your new gift is to destroy what little left they have and kill even more of them.

    This is your version of civilising them?

    American-led troops were accused yesterday of dragging innocent children from their beds and shooting them during a night raid that left ten people dead.

    Afghan government investigators said that eight schoolchildren were killed, all but one of them from the same family. Locals said that some victims were handcuffed before being killed.

    Western military sources said that the dead were all part of an Afghan terrorist cell responsible for manufacturing improvised explosive devices (IEDs), which have claimed the lives of countless soldiers and civilians.

    “This was a joint operation that was conducted against an IED cell that Afghan and US officials had been developing information against for some time,” said a senior Nato insider. But he admitted that “the facts about what actually went down are in dispute”.

    ----------------------------------------------------

    A local elder, Jan Mohammed, said that three boys were killed in one room and five were handcuffed before they were shot. “I saw their school books covered in blood,” he said.

    The investigation found that eight of the victims were aged from 11 to 17. The guest was a shepherd boy, 12, called Samar Gul, the headmaster said. He said that six of the students were at high school and two were at primary school. He said that all the students were his nephews.


    (Source)

    Like your version of bringing them schools, hospitals, etc?

    Could you be more insulting and demeaning?

    Do they even sell latte's?

    And what is this obsession with McDonalds coffee?

    Is this why you are obsessed? It's made your pecker soft?

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  20. Trippy ALEA IACTA EST Staff Member

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    Speaking of ignorance - should we equally infer that bombing children "significantly less important than violating their religion" (or ideals) to Jews, Christians and Americans?
     
  21. octavian Registered Member

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    13

    While your posts do amuse me, you are wrong on one fact. MickeyDees does sell lattes. Therefor Michael is an intelligent human being who makes legitimate points. And if any reader cannot detect the sarcasm you should probably see an optometrist​
     
  22. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    54,036
    Neither of them are that bad actually. Burning a book is within his rights as an American, and killing the enemy is within our rights as a nation. I notice you conveniently refer to the deaths in Afghanistan as Muslim deaths, never making any distinction between the Taliban and people accidentally killed in their pursuit.

    Most of this thread seems to be a complaint about the media, not the essential issues involved, and I'm with you there, the media sucks.
     
  23. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    Shrine bombing kills 41 in central Pakistan

    There's two connections with Terry the Qur'an Burner I can see here:
    1) The feeling that "Islam" is being attacked.
    2) The belief that Islam can be defended through violence.

    For many Muslims, Sufi Islam is probably more insulting compared with Terry burning the Qur'an. Sufi are actually tricking Good Muslims away from the One True faith . For fundamentalist Muslims, Sufi attack Islam directly. Terry OTOH doesn't - he' s just being a dick. A Good Muslims would argue he is only defending Islam and therefor is justified in killing Sufi.

    Compare this with the USA in Afghanistan.
    1) "America" actually was attacked on 9/11.
    2) The belief that a Nation can be defended through violence.

    For many Americans, Afghanistan was seen as a threat - due to 9/11. Americans feel they had a right to defend themselves because they were physically attacked. I don't think it mattered if the people were Muslim or Hindu or Buddhist or whatever. Now that Americans easily won the war, they have set about attempting to change the culture in Afghanistan to be more stable and civilized. Prior to the USA/AU invasion, Afghanistan was decimated from their a Civil war. We recognize the role female education plays in stabilizing and de-Islamifying a culture. That is the war now. A war of Ideas. Is it right? That you'll have to decide for yourself. Regardless, the USA won the ground war they started and for the foreseeable future we effectively control Afghanistan. And really, other than as a transit pipeline, there's not much worth anything there. We'll never be repaid for the damage they caused us and our economy. And, other than a pipeline, we really haven't asked them to pay. On the contrary, we're paying them! We try to build schools and we try to help them. And aside from the BS propaganda Bells and SAM think, most Afghans (especially the women) greatly appreciate all we are doing for them. That's a fact.




    (Sadly these religious bombing are so common in Pakistan now they're not even worth a thread of their own).
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2011

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