Policy for an ideal world

Discussion in 'General Philosophy' started by Litlle phylosopher, Feb 21, 2003.

  1. Litlle phylosopher Registered Member

    Messages:
    8
    So here i'm going to post my little ideas about an ideal world, feel free to comment or to add points.

    Perfect World

    1.No person feels superior to any other person on bases of: Religion; gender; skin colour; ethnic background; religion; sexual preference.

    2.Every person must get this 1 point in his/her education: Violence, in any form, is contraproductif and disgusting. People who were not brought up in this belief are obliged to watch 1 hour of video on the suffering of common people in a war.

    3. Every person should get the chance to choose a profession in his childhood that he or she would like to do for the rest of his/her life. Retirement age is 65 or later (this is no problem since everyone likes his job).

    4. Every person should be able do lend materials from the state to express him/herself artistically.

    5. The owning/production/existence of a tool with agression as a sole purpose is illegal.

    Well, that's about it, i can add much more, but then again, a perfect world DOESN'T NEED any rules.

    We'll never get there i guess
     
  2. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  3. Adam §Þ@ç€ MØnk€¥ Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,415
    A while back I had the idea of writing a constitution for a future society in a science fiction story I was working on. This is what I came up with:

     
  4. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  5. Litlle phylosopher Registered Member

    Messages:
    8
    Well, you're design for a new world order is more realistic then mine, that's for sure.
    And i wouldn't mind living in it really

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!


    But it's not the IDEAL world now is it, athough one can never see the ideal world of 1 person the same as his own ideal world.

    Why don't we all have the exact same sense of morality
    Life WOULD be EASIER.
     
  6. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  7. Tyler Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,888
    "Why don't we all have the exact same sense of morality
    Life WOULD be EASIER"

    And so much less entertaining.


    Little, I suggest you go watch the movie (or read hte book) A Clockwork Orange. The film (or book, as you may have guessed!) deals with this very issue. To impose on all of society this sense of "rightness", to align violence with "wrong" not only makes for a boring and unimaginative society - but is severly dangerous. Say one Hitler gets loose? Say one person or one area don't quite fall into your mold? Then you have an entire world bred and brainwashed to not know how to react to violence. Think this world could stop a Hitler, Stalin, Trujillo.....? I doubt it.
    Besides,

    "Every person should be able do lend materials from the state to express him/herself artistically"

    When you force everyone to have the same view and morality, art will die. Art is an expression of individuality.
     
  8. *stRgrL* Kicks ass Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,495
    Like in that movie with Sylvester Stalone and Sandra Bullock - was it Demolition Man? I cant remember but in the future "perfect" society everyone was peaceful until Wesley Snipes got loose and caused havoc on the whole city - noone knew how to handle him. They werent trained and had no exposure to bad situations. Just like if your too overprotective of your child. When they grow up and something horrible happens, they wont know how to handle it.
    And Im a firm believer that in order to see the beauty, you have to of seen the ugliness in this world.
    In a perfect society, noone would appreciate the peacefulness. They would expect it.
     
  9. Slacker47 Paint it Black Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    667
    It is my personal belief that any governmental system or mode of life would work based on two variables:

    1) There would have to be alot less people than there are now.
    2) Everyone would have to agree

    That is why there will never be a perfect society. The perfect life is spent by yourself because "everyone" would agree with you.

    Two days ago, I was thinking about this, and I got deeper and deeper into it. I realized the most important lesson of my life: The perfect life is death. In death, you know EVERYTHING that you could ever learn because in death there is nothing left to learn. Non-existence provides the perfect medium for peace, balance, and impossibility. Death is everything that life would like to be.
     
  10. The Marquis Only want the best for Nigel Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,562
    What a complete load of guano.
    Feeling suicidal are we?
     
  11. lixluke Refined Reinvention Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    9,072
    Perception of Beauty

    cool skill’s city purpose: MAXIMIZE HUMAN WELL BEING IN SYMBIOSIS WITH NATURE.


    Dear star,

    The fact that one has never seen the "ugly" does not prevent them from appreciating the beauty.

    True enough, most of the rich people I come across (that have never known what it’s like to live the streets) have a completely seriously warped sense of reality.
    Such outlooks are likely caused by limited experience.
    In movies such as “Demolition Man”, everybody’s lights were on, but nobody appeared to be homeless.
    They weren’t even remotely aware of the people living under the sewers.
    Their flawed “ideal society” was nothing but a plot mechanism for the story.
    Such “ideal society” flaws are recurring basis themes and clichés of many science fiction stories including “Minority Report”, “Logan’s Run”, and “Judge Dread”.

    Nevertheless, in no way does being raised in a nurturing environment imply a lack of understanding and empathy for people.
    Nor does it imply a lack of appreciation for life and beauty.
    (I’m not referring to the “ideal societies” created for such science fiction stories. I’m referring to concept societies urban developers and city planners constantly devise and improve on.)
    The purpose of improved systems actually implies an increase in people’s affinity with nature and one another. The appreciation for life and beauty is an included aspect.

    Many people know by now that the goal of my city design is a nurturing environment where people can learn and grow to be physically and emotionally healthy as opposed to being raised in a stifled environments where physical and emotional well being are virtually impossible to achieve.

    Months ago I gave responses to some of your posts about my beliefs on people being forced to work(do time).

    My designs call for a government that provides it’s citizens with top of the line food, shelter, clothing, transportation, security, education, health care, communications, social activities, technology, etc., with the purpose of maximizing individual emotional and therefore physical well being. The ethics involved, create a society whose people possess the freedom to exercise their true moral birth rights.

    This includes my belief of a government that holds the moral responsibility of providing the above to the individual weather she/he chooses to work or not.

    Some disagree with my belief that our governments are unethical for possessing the ability to feed and house everybody, but feeling no moral obligation to do so.
    Instead, society’s backwards ethics uphold that it is the individual’s moral obligation as a member of society to labor for the society.
    Thus, the existence of true individual freedom is replaced with the necessity to do time-(work) without choice in order to eat, pay rent, and care for our young.

    Consider traveling a few thousand years in the past, and explaining women’s rights, social stratification, and slavery to the locals.
    You strangely find that the people who are being oppressed most by these immoral laws are the ones that hold the deepest beliefs that a society without such laws can’t function, and changing them would be idiotic.
    In the same way, explain that a society without slavery and class separation actually functions at higher levels than a slave society.
    Now consider the possibility of explaining to people that they have the right to eat, live, and feed their young without obligation.
    Laboring for society is not their obligation. Instead, society holds the moral obligation to provide for it's citizens. Furthermore, try getting them to comprehend that a society which nurtures it's citizens instead of imposes obligations on them also functions at higher levels.

    The history of technological advances patterns a decrease in labor, and an increase in awareness and leisure.
    What is changes worst enemy? Custom.

    There are 2 fundamental views that I write about which I have been planning to post as a poll.
    (I'll probably do so in the near future).
    To summarize, the first is the view that for whatever reason, such a society cannot function.
    The threat of a leisure society, or the threat of oppression are some of the greatest fears.

    The second fundamental view is that such a society is possible.
    Custom, as well as the mindset and fears of the first view are part of what prevent the existence of such a society.
    This view does not promote the “ideal society” cliché, but a society that constantly improves and applies better and better ethical organizational systems.
    Instead of fears, there is an understanding that the goal is not to create a mindless leisure society, but to "maximize human well being in symbiosis with nature."

    There is much much more behind these concepts, but I hope you understand if I hold off on a more detailed explanation for another time.

    Permit me to conclude with this:
    There are two mindsets that must be followed for the achievement of each specific concept.

    The first draws up every reason why such a society cannot function. It creates reasonable flaws, and cuts off.

    The second does the same, but never cuts off.
    As reasonable flaws are created, reasonable solutions are found.
    Remember, if you search for it, you will find it.
    As more solutions are found, more and more flaws disappear.
    Eventually the flaws become so negligible, they can be controlled with little effort.

    Thanks, star.
    I respect your opinion, and hope you find what I say at least somewhat reasonable.

    -cs w.e.
     
  12. Litlle phylosopher Registered Member

    Messages:
    8
    I guess a perfect world will NEVER be achieved, but i do think that we can come close to it. But in order to come close ALOT will have to change, and i wonder what action is necesairy to get that change in people's way of thinking.

    And i do believe slacker47 is right, there are too many people, but we can't do much about that, can we.
    Although i do believe that nature will provide a way to get rid of parts of mankind. Maybe for the best.

    And i'll try that Clockwork orange movie and demolition man.

    tnx for reacting
     
  13. lixluke Refined Reinvention Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    9,072
    What difference would population make?
    Especially under the circumstances of your second variable.
    Population growth rate can be fairly measured.
    Couldn't it furthermore, be fairly accommodated?
    The more we learn to measure population growth, the better we get at it.
    The more work on accommodation for our gworing population, the better we get at finding new and improved accommodation methods.
     
  14. ndrs The Anti-Cthulhu Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    397
    Lols... Religion? Mentioned twice?
    This is crazy. Isn't there such thing today as religiuos discrimination? I am surprised I am not in jail yet, with all the verbal abuse.
    Choose once, do it your whole life? That is some pathetic viewpoint. Especially since most people don't know what they want to do, they only choose it since they think it is cool/money/whatever. These dreams never last long.





    Exactly... A world is perfect without any rules. Just like this one.This is your perfect world.
     
  15. Dana D It's all about balance Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    153
    Wasn't this the Socialist dream? Now, why didn't it work?

    Seems to me I heard about a study many years ago that actually found that each societal step (hunter/gatherer - agrarian - industrial - informational) produced an average increase in hours per day worked to provide a standard living. Humm, I'll have to try and track that down.

    Ah, here's the start of it -
    The Original Affluent Society
     
  16. lixluke Refined Reinvention Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    9,072
    Don't even get me started.
    And no not really. Socialist goals are a little different.


    Right.
    Although Americans see an increase in leisure, it's not a proper representation of the world in general.
    Most of the underdeveloped countries are doing all of our labor.
    Leisure is not increasing, but separating.
    That is why we live in airconditioned apartments with wall to wall, and drive cars.
    An agrarian society with little minimal industry would bring about a 90% leisure life that would greatly push human understanding to higher limits.

    In other words, humans could utilize 75%-110% of our time and energy laboring. The problem is, the labor is meaningless, and therefore, society grows at near stagnant rates.

    By working intelligently and cooperatively, human labor output at 10% of our maximum labor capacity can sky rocket social/intellectual/technological growth.

    Furthermore, not only is a human labor output of greater than 10% of our capacity not necessary, increasing labor beyond 10% capacity would hinder us.

    By the way, nice link!
     
  17. Dana D It's all about balance Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    153
    Welcome.
    Did bad 'ol warmongering capitalism get in the way?
     
  18. lixluke Refined Reinvention Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    9,072
    lol.
    Don't they always?
    Seems to be the only thing they're good for.
    No wonder progress is on the floor.
    She hit her head bumping into capitalism.
    Always getting in the way.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  19. Dana D It's all about balance Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    153
    I've always considered socialism a superior system, except for one problem ... You have to have perfect people populating it! Otherwise it just won't work. The planet is a little short on perfect people.
     
  20. lixluke Refined Reinvention Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    9,072
    To capitalism?
    Yes, Dana D, and so is communism.
    Too bad everybody isn’t be perfect like me.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  21. Dr Lou Natic Unnecessary Surgeon Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,574
    First things first, I think we should not be able to use any wild animal or plant for anything. We should only be alowwed(sp?) to use things we have farmed and all farming should take place in tall skyscrapers that take up minimum space.
    I think roads and buildings should be lifted off the ground so the eco-system can do its thing underneath us.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

    :m:
     
  22. Dana D It's all about balance Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    153
    In the shade? Hmmm ... Lots of room for mushrooms!
     

Share This Page