Will Republicans/Tea Partiers cause the United States to default on it's debt?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by joepistole, Apr 13, 2011.

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Will Republicans raise the nations debt ceiling?

Poll closed Apr 12, 2012.
  1. Yes

    9 vote(s)
    47.4%
  2. No

    3 vote(s)
    15.8%
  3. Don't know

    7 vote(s)
    36.8%
  1. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    22,910
    I agree with you Quad, perhaps I should have worded that to be more clear. Whenever you hear a Republican speak these days, it always the same mantra; "We don't have a tax problem, we have a spending problem". Everyone of those Republican/Tea Partiers use the exact same words whenever and wherever possible. One has to start wondering if they have been taking messages from an evil teleprompter.

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  3. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    22,910
    Amen to that, and they like to say Ryan is the smart guy.

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    And perhaps they would care to explain why the George II tax cuts did not create the jobs promised by the Heritage Foundation and their fellow Republicans...the same Heritage Foundation that Ryan is using for his projected unemployment rates in his Republican budget.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2011
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  5. quadraphonics Bloodthirsty Barbarian Valued Senior Member

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    Yep, it's pretty obviously the standard party line, directed and enforced as such. No teleprompter required - everyone in the GOP understands perfectly well that they will be tossed under a bus if they ever waver on that question. The GOP has always been the party of rich people, and will always work primarily to advance their interests at the expense of others. Although, it does take a certain gumption to make this inane contradictory statements on national TV with a straight face.

    The thing is that he is the smart guy - the teabaggers have set the bar so low that anybody who even speaks in policy terms at all comes off as "smart" by comparison.

    Not that he's actually stupid - he's clearly a very canny and capable politician - but the thing about debating in policy terms is that his favored policies are asinine in policy terms (in political terms, maybe not so much).

    He employed an interesting bit of deception last night on Charlie Rose, when asked about the President's proposal to slash corporate taxes and instead raise income taxes on the very wealthy. His response consisted of two (true) statements, combined to produce a blatant lie. To wit: that most job creation comes from "successful small businesses" and that a great deal of small businesses file their taxes as individuals and not corporations (and so would be subject to increased taxation). The implication being, apparently, that raising income taxes on the wealthy - even while slashing corporate taxes - would kill jobs by restraining small business. The key to the lie is the qualifier of successful small businesses - a small business that is successful and generates a lot of new jobs, rapidly ceases to be small. What we're talking about here are enterprises like Facebook and Google which exploded from a tiny size into giants over a few years - that's where the "small business driven" job growth comes from. It does not come from mom'n'pop small businesses that remain small and file individual income taxes - a business that isn't growing out of the "small" category necessarily isn't creating jobs.

    What's interesting about that, though, is that he's essentially proposing socialism, but restricted to the "entrepreneurial class" (which is code for wealthy, and specifically white, people). Rather than healthcare for retired seniors, or assistance for middle-class families with disabled children, he wants us to subsidize the fortunes of established wealth, and is willing to lie through his teeth to make it happen. Pretty disgusting stuff.

    Or the Reagan tax cuts before that, or the fact that we had a huge boom under Clinton with much higher taxes, etc. It's kind of dumbfounding that they're still clinging to supply-side voodoo economics after it's been so thoroughly repudiated so many times. By this point, the Heritage Foundation is little more than a clearing house for the known falsity that tax cuts on the wealthy will create jobs and tax revenue.
     
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  7. clusteringflux Version 1. OH! Valued Senior Member

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    2,766
    Name one democrat that can stop this. They've reduced the "Messiah" to a Latenight punch line, don't worry though. I'm sure he'll find a place in the wake..

    Democrats have nothing. Multinationals and finance hold all the cards and call the game.
    Teaparty was a last ditch effort to find to end the madness of the elitist,FED and Government glut. They've been usurped and misinformed.

    Times like these make me glad I don't have any money to worry about.
     
  8. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    16,479
    bingo. they all want us to believe the debt explosion since reagan was in office is the fault of tax and spend democrats. its laughable how stupid they think we are. its scary that for the most part their right.
     
  9. kororoti Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    252
    You know, the sad thing is we could probably save ourselves from this just by surrendering in Afghanistan and Iraq. They've beaten us fair and square. Just the way they did it was by bankrupting us financially instead by way of a body count. OPEC certainly did its share to help them out.

    When we admit defeat, our problems will get a lot better really fast. We can take that war budget and put it somewhere else.
     
  10. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    33,264
    Use it for the upgrades to the Veterns Administrations hospitals and outpatient care centers for there are many of the troops that are going to be needing it and there are already troops back in the USA that are needing those hospitals now. The veterns are the last to recieve any upgrades but are the first called upon to fight for the country.
     
  11. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    22,910
    Let's be clear, Iraq nor Afghanistan caused our financial crisis. Our fiscal failure is the direct result of the fiscal irresponsibility of the George II administration (Republican).

    The military wars in Afghanistan and Iraq were failures because of poor leadership (Republican) in Washington. Bin Laden should have been taken out at Tora Bora and we should have been out of Afghanistan years ago.

    Our failure to develop and implement a successful energy policy for several decades is why we are still in an energy crunch.

    We have no one to blame but ourselves. Our government, our media and we as citizens failed.
     
  12. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    33,264
    That's only your opinion. Many others, including myself, think that after 2 years of any President they are responsible for the problems at hand and not those who came before them. Obama could have easily shut Guantanamo down as he said he would but never has. Obama could have ended both wars by now but as yet only has brought in the mercenaries to help out . There's many things Obama is responsible for and should be held as the man in charge of it all.
     
  13. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    22,910
    LOL, you are amazing cosmic.

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    It is more than opinion, it is fact.

    Yeah, Obama is the man who now bears the responsibility for fixing these problems. But to say that Obama created the messes, is absoutely wrong. To even think that Obama could fix these messes in two years; to think Obama could wave a magic wand and make the mistakes of the past vanish is frankly just bizzare thinking.

    President Obama has made good progress in fixing the Republican disasters, considering that Republicans have vigorously opposed everthing he has done and attempted to do to fix the nations problems. And now Republicans are threatening to put the nation into bankruptcy unnecessarily.

    And Gitmo has nothing to do with the serious financial problems before the nation. Obama kept Gitmo open because when he tried to close it and move its prisoners to the continental United States Republicans mounted a massive successful scare campaign - causing Americans not to want Gitmo prisoners anywhere near them.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2011
  14. wellwisher Banned Banned

    Messages:
    5,160
    Back in the Clinton years America was in very good shape with respect to economic and social stability. That occurred whe the debt and deficit were much smaller. Since the debt has increased due to Bush increasing it and then Obama doubling the debt again, both the economy and the social safety net have become very fragile.

    Do you see any cause and effect?

    Clinton with a fraction of the revenue had no problem meeting the social needs while experiencing economic prosperity. Yet Obama and the current democrats, with 5 times the money fear losing any funding or else their incompetence will show as the sky falls in.

    The reason Clinton, using less, could do so well, is that money in the economy creates a multiplier effect. When the gov has it, we lose that causing the value of the money to fall for all including the poor. This is creating the unstable situation where every penny in government revenue is needed to do what used to be done with only a tiny fraction.
     
  15. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    22,910
    NO, I don't see any cause and effect in what you wrote...only some disconnected thoughts. And Obama did not double the debt. As previously pointed out, there were four reasons for the current fiscal crisis

    - Failure to pay for increased spending
    - Deliberately decreasing revenue with unwarranted tax cuts
    - Failure to appropriately regulate financial institutions causing a worldwide economic great recession
    - Failed military ventures.

    All were the product of a Republican controlled government (president, congress and supreme court). Now what kind of insane fool goes out there an dramatically increases spending without paying for it and then deliberately reduces revenue? Apparently Republican fools do, because that is what they have done.

    Clinton had none of the above mentioned issues during his administration.
    That has nothing to do with the issues at hand. This reminds me of something I heard on conservative talk radio the other day. Fox host John Gibson was explaining that the multiplier effect only works for government an not private industry...the exact opposite of what you are saying. It is obvious that neither you understand the multiplier concept.

    The multiplier effect doesn't care who is spending only that the money is being spent. It applies to private an public spending. Money does not by itself create a multiplying effect, spending it does.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiplier_(economics)
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2011
  16. clusteringflux Version 1. OH! Valued Senior Member

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  17. fedr808 1100101 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,706
    I would be amused if Obama managed to win over the tea party by creating a budget cut of 60-100 billion dollars. Which in theory he could do.

    The Republicans can't get a decent cut compared to their promises in part because the dems won't let them cut 'necessary' things. But if the democrats were able to cut the budget by that much it would show a lot of tea partiers that while he may not agree with them, he does recognize and respect their beliefs.

    Which could easily crush their chances at re election.

    It probably won't happen, but it would be incredibly entertaining if it did.
     
  18. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    22,910
    President Obama will never win over Republican Tea Partiers period. He has spent a lot of the last few years trying to do so and alienating his base in the process. Remember Republicans/Tea Party is the party that thinks Obama was born in Kenya despite all the overwhelming evidence to the contrary.
     
  19. madanthonywayne Morning in America Registered Senior Member

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  20. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    22,910
    I think you just proved my point Mad.
     
  21. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    54,036
    True, he has conceded a lot, but they will never be satisfied until the government does nothing but help rich people get richer.
     
  22. Giambattista sssssssssssssssssssssssss sssss Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,878
    He'll just waffle around until the next election. All Presidents blame their predecessors.

    The honeymoon is over. Now for the glorious divorce!
     
  23. Carcano Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,865
    This whole debate is merely a matter of re-arranging deck chairs on the goodship TYRANNY.

    The US government would be swimming in big surpluses if it were not so tyrannical...both externally and internally.

    Every American could have free health and dental care if the Feds would simply tax prostitution and marijuana...instead of spending oceans of cash locking people up and destroying their lives, simply for doing something vaguely unhealthy.
     

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