Star Wars vs Star Trek

Discussion in 'SciFi & Fantasy' started by Pollux V, May 9, 2002.

?

Which universe would win?

  1. Star Trek

    227 vote(s)
    35.5%
  2. Star Wars

    268 vote(s)
    41.9%
  3. Spaceballs

    47 vote(s)
    7.3%
  4. Farscape

    12 vote(s)
    1.9%
  5. Dune

    50 vote(s)
    7.8%
  6. Stargate

    36 vote(s)
    5.6%
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  1. Apocalypse2001 System Lord Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    693
    God you really are dense aren't you.....
     
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  3. George1 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    929
    god, you really just can't be clear, can you?
    by by now.
     
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  5. Apocalypse2001 System Lord Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    693
    I'm not going to play you're game. You started including things that had NOTHING to do with what I said. Ergo : RED HERRING FALLACY. Deal with it.
     
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  7. Kel "Not all who wander are lost." Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    43
    Apocalypse2001; My mistake about the newest movie. I had heard that they were planning sequels and a series to "re-invent" Star Trek.

    As for the asteroid thing I think we can all agree that the physics in Star Wars and Star Trek just don't work. In reality I know that "dogfights" between fightercraft and even capital ships would consist of approach to weapon range, release of weapons, and then flying by. Granted capital ships, i.e. star destroyers and vessels like the Enterprise, could engage in broadside style engagements similar to those fought at sea but slinging a vessel the size of a house or even a modern jet fighter just doesn't work. Unless of course you are talking about unmanned vehicles that could withstand the inertia but that is another topic in the forum. However I am not going to let a little fanciful physics stop me from enjoying the visceral thrill of daring dogfights and asteroid field chases. And lets face it...They both have sound in a vacuum.
     
  8. George1 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    929
    yes, my point exactly. for the inertia stuff, there is always the inertia damper plot though. both ST and SW have them. and what would the fighters swarming through space and those awesome explosions be without sound?
     
  9. George1 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    929
    pal, you were the one who jumped in with crap that i wasn't on subject. I WAS RESPONDING TO YOUR POST:
    YOU
    ME
    YOU
    ME
    YOU
    the only red hearing i see is you jerk.
     
  10. Kel "Not all who wander are lost." Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    43
    I guess what this all really proves is that the SpaceBalls Win
     
  11. Wilobeast Registered Member

    Messages:
    1
    Well I've been reading a lot of the posts and the problem with the debates is this scifi "facts"! Hard data (no pune intended) is what you need to look at. This is hard considering how quickly Star wars changes its data facts. Now I am a big fan of many scifi franchises including Star Trek, Wars, Gate etc... as well as Gundam (take your pick), Robotech, Battletech and Macross and I have compared them all for many years and the all have pros and cons but at the end of the day when all is siad and done the tech makes the difference and wins the day. Best tech Star Trek then Star Wars then robotech Macross Stargate etc. Don't get me wrong Jedi are great but they can't be eberwhere at once and they are not all super powerful. As for fleets Star wars has the numbers and strong ship hulls but that's it. The main weapon of most of these ships is chem lasers that do nothing to st shields. Of course, ion weapons and proton torpedos are a different story. Sw ships have poor aim, short, range and poor firing arcs not to mention they are slow as hell at sublight(at this point who knows at ftl)! St ships have better shields equal if not better hull armor(depending on faction and class), better weapon ranges and arcs and can fire on numerous targets at once with better aim and at sublight St ships can run circles around Sw ships. Don't get me wrong it would be a hard fight and an ugly end but when the dust settles St would win only just. As long as you keep it in space because on the ground it's a different story. At that point it's a fight between Star Wars and Robotech/Macross with Gundam a very close second. But like I said it comes down to facts.
     
  12. George1 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    929
    im a fan of those to.

    again that argument. i will not repeat this: SW "lasers" are NOT lasers. period. even if they would be lasers, they would still cause damage against st shields, cuz they still would have energy.

    poor aim and short range? not really. in ROTJ they exchanged fire from many kilometers away, just as far as i saw in any star trek battle. as for the aim, they are actually pretty good, considering they aren't controlled by a center computer. each gun is independent, and when in st their bridge takes alittle damage and they can't control their weapons, they have no backup as far as i remember.
    sw shields can withstand 3 mile long ships crashing into them, at hyperspace. that's the executor, its not century more advance than the average star destroyer. they also have independent guns, each capable of a lot of firepower. each one can aim other targets. also, they can fire just as well at sublight, as evidence when the Endor fleet came from the other side of the moon and fired immediately without decelerating.
    you mean ships like the Voyager right? cuz i never saw capital ships doing anything like that. i did saw Voyager though.
    yeah, facts. fact 1: you need dozens of ST ships just to face and have a slight chance of wining a small battle.
    fact 2: sw ships can move freely on st space in hours, while st needs days, weeks. in my book, if you can outrun them in any situation, you have an unbeatable advantage. say the federation dispatches ships from one planet to engage in a battle, but it takes days for them to reach that point. by then, the Empire can dispatch their entire fleet there, beat them to hell and return every ships back to its original position. that's win.
    fact 3: SW wins by hell of a difference.
     
  13. alpinedigital Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    370
    I dont know if you've read any of mine but you should have. Im probably the only one who's not wanking on numbers but on actual factual advantages.

    A. SW is super slow at sublight speeds which is where the battle would occur since ST doesnt do hyperspace. Advantage - Trek (Checked MGLT speed conversions on several sites)
    B. SW attack ability - hitting a moving target, even with the speed of ST shuttles would be a near impossibility, esp at the weapons range of the ST ships. Advantage - Trek

    That said, the ability to cripple a trek ship requires actually hitting it, which is close to impossible. The best case SW has would be to approach unannounced with weapons blazing, which requires sneaking up on them. Good luck with that since ST can go to warp without hesitation. As for the Interdictors, that argument fails. I've looked up the actual functionality and its not as simple as 'It prevents going to light speed' which is debatable if it is even effective against a warp engine. You have to charge it, aim it, there's hardly any 'effective area' data, and even if it DOES, it's difficult to move that affected area and ST can still do 3/4 impulse to an unaffected area and then go to warp.

    How fast is ST at impulse speeds? Maneuverability: Picard did a 180 and went to warp in the opposite direction, took'em like 3 seconds. Velocity: "high relativistic speeds are avoided unless absolutely necessary; impulse power is therefore customarily limited to a maximum of ¼ lightspeed." Basically, if u don't catch a trek ship standing still, you have little chance of hitting it,esp when the turrets don't rotate fast enough to track them.

    As for ground battles, I'd say Trek would win hands down, because they never really need to battle. They have transporter technology. They don't even need to lock onto opponents, just beam the ground out from under them, then rematerialize it and bury their ass. Works for troops, troop transports, AT-ATs, u name it. "Bye-bye, down the frickin HOLE with ya." Any 'force jumpers' that escape can be dematerialized without a lock and whoops: "Damn, it doesnt work very well on life-forms that way... sorry pal. lol His other half fell back in the hole."
     
  14. George1 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    929
    this argument is EXACTLY why no one should buy anything you say. trek never showed the ability to " beam the ground out from under them, then rematerialize it".

    also, your other argument also fails, because they never showed to move that fast when in battle. they just move in, and the only times when they did move that fast, it was never in the mist of a battle. also, turrets not only can rotate fast, they can target independently, so if one misses, the other can still hit you, no matter how fast your going. The ship can always match speeds or even closely follow it, and fire frontal turrets. the only real drawback of the turrets is that it doesn't have a 360 degree arc.

    and that crap about being slow at sublight. SD in ROTJ moved from around the other side of the moon in no time. Endor is some 5000 km at least in diameter. to move that fast around a body requires some serious acceleration. and the rebel fleet jumped quite far from the moon, and closed in in a matter of less than 2 minutes, at most. again very fast. your argument fails.
     
  15. JJM Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    364
    star wars vs.star trek

    Net-ftl (nonexhaust thrust-faster than light) is a cornucopia. Maybe the questions of usages may have forestalled its development. The bridle tamed the horse. People crossed the mountains. Some carried farming plows and others carried spears. If it be Life, let it be. If it be death, so to that will be. One cannot guarantee that Star Trek will always be peaceful.
     
  16. alpinedigital Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    370
    Did you never see them beam a WHALE and tank full of water from an ocean?

    As for the speeds you argue about, you fail yet again. In Star Trek there's not advantage to battling at speeds that other ships can match. But for the slow speeds of Star Wars, it would be the supreme advantage. And please save your dignity in trying to insult everyone's intelligence by saying SW ships have the slightest chance of keeping up. They simply and quite absolutely CAN NOT because Trek ships can maneuver and attack at any speed clear up to warp speeds.

    However, I will entertain what you submit as evidence, as long as it's not "In this scene they were here, the next scene they are elsewhere" crap. That's about as useless to me as saying, "the Falcon was was being pursued in hyperspace because Han wasn't in the room immediately after they jumped to hyperspace so MUST have been still in a Hyperspace chase scenario", which is complete bull crap.

    SAVE IT. Just point out the scenes where these spectacular speeds are shown or don't bother.
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2011
  17. George1 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    929
    bla bla bla, "Trek ships can maneuver and attack at any speed clear up to warp speeds." ok, when do we see that? at any battle i saw there was no reference point to deduce that. how did you deduce that? please enlighten me.

    also, want proof of sw ship speeds, what's that scene from ROTJ again, if you ever did. they were behind the moon and then right in front of the rebel fleet with guns blazing in a very short time. if you want proof of maneuverability, watch The Clone Wars: Cat and Mouse episode to see the Venators making a very sharp maneuver to escape separatist fire.
     
  18. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,938
    We've seen the Enterprise, Voyager, and even Defiant fire weapons (both Phasers and Torpedoes) at warp before... so... yeah, combat at Warp is a big ole "CONFIRMED"...

    Also - sorry, but Clone Wars stuff is overruled by movie stuff... and in the movies we see two Star Destroyers unable to avoid a collision despite having almost a full hull length to turn... where as in Trek ships routinely turn INSIDE their own ship length.
     
  19. George1 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    929
    unable to avoid a collision? THEY DIDN'T COLLIDE, so id say they DID avoided it. lol. so what dose that prove, beside that they were close together and we saw them moving towards each other? and oh, Enterprise D couldn't turn around to avoid that ship that blow it up? SEVERAL times? wheres that maneuverability now? they had time to think a plan, they would have had time to move out of the way, especially considering that super maneuverability your talking about.

    also, the Clone Wars is still canon, actually pretty much the same as the movies. the movies are G canon and the Clone Wars T cannon. both have to be produce directly by Lucas to fit into their category. so sorry, but even C canon is valid material, and its below both G and T.
     
  20. Shogun Bleed White and Blue! Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,635
    Here is something about George, obviously I didn't come up with this. I modified one word to fit George better.

    His palms are sweaty, knees weak, arms are heavy
    There's vomit on his sweater already, mom's spaghetti
    He's nervous, but on the surface he looks calm and ready
    To drop bombs, but he keeps on forgetting
    What he wrote down, the whole crowd goes so loud
    He opens his mouth, but the words won't come out
    He's chokin, how? Everybody's jokin now
    The clock's run out, time's up over, blow!
    Snap back to reality, oh there goes gravity
    Oh, there goes George, he choked
    He's so mad, but he won't give up that
    Easy, no
     
  21. Shogun Bleed White and Blue! Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,635
    Lol, I can't believe somebody compared scifi for years.

    From what I can see, it is in this order

    Macross/Robotech
    Star Trek
    Star Wars

    Gundam is hard to place, because from what I've seem, some Mobile Suits are overpowered while the others are seriously crap.

    I have never seen Stargate.

    I am not even close to up-to-date with scifi...man haven't even watched scifi in so long...
     
  22. Shogun Bleed White and Blue! Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,635
    Excuse me? lol
     
  23. Kittamaru Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Adieu, Sciforums. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,938
    Uhm... no, they collided... they scraped sides (ergo, they collided). Not a head on collision, but considering how far apart they were that's still damned pathetic.

    And which ship are you talking about blowing up the Ent-D? Do you mean the one where they were stuck in the temporal time loop, repeating the same collision over and over? If so - do recall, shields, propulsion, weapons, and damn near every other primary system was offline. So... yeah, no, they couldn't move out of the way...

    Yes, Clone Wars IS canon - but it is LOWER canon than the movies... thus, the slow ships and terrible turning radius we see in the movies trumps any "quick maneuvers" we see the same ships doing in the Clone Wars. Sorry, I didn't invent the canon system - take that up with Lucas Arts if you have a problem with that :shrug:
     
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