The good news is, and the bad news is:

The Bad News is most of those were in low paying jobs like McDonalds.

The Bad News is, EOs / CEOs at GoldmanSux, JP Morgan, Bank of America are making record profits and bonuses on the backs of the American people.
The Good News is, once the Depression really sets in, many of these Banking scum will be sent to prison (along with the politicians they paid off) OR dragged out into the streets and beaten to death and eaten by the starving masses they're stealing from today

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The Bad News is GoldmanSux conned the Libyan people out of 98% on nearly 4 BILLION dollars from their sovereign-wealth fund.

The Good News is I read Gaddafi has paid hit-men to snuff out the CEO of GoldmanSux along with the crook Tony Blaire (who sold out to JP Morgan).



Go Gaddafi!!

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The Good News is Obama promised to remove the Patriot Act if elected POTUS.
The Bad News is, Obama made that shit up just to get elected.

 

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The Bad News is the Fed plans to print another 3 trillion dollars.
The Good News is, silver set to hit record highs

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I guess it depends on what you consider low paying. But the jobs are not being created in retail. The big areas for job growth are professional services and heatlhcare. Those are not hamburger flipping jobs.

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm

I don't think that is ever going to happen. Money talks.

But we do agree that corruption is why we are where we are today. And reform is long needed - specifically we need to take special interest money out of our government and our election process.

 

Nevermind joe, you truly never get tired of displaying your ignorance. Do you?

 

Back to the ad hominem I see. Unfortunately mr. galt that is all you have to offer. You cannot sustain an arguement with things like facts and reason.

 

If we get a choice, I vote for the later alternative, because prisons cost money, unless they will pay their own and >10 other's prison costs. If they won't, then I prefer slow roasting over charcoal as means of cooking the very fresh (kicking and screaming) meat instead prior beating to death. (Many, when over the charcoal, will change their minds a pay quite a lot in prison cost, I think, when they feel the heat. Probably even feed a 100 of the hungry all they can eat at McDonalds, at least).

Some may not part with their money. Any one else here old enough to remember "tight wad" Jack Benny's reply to the robber with gun pointed at him who said:
"You money or your life. ...... Hey dummy, I said your money or your life." Then J.B. said: "Don't rush me, I'm still thinking it over."

 

The good news is Joe American is "De-leveraging" / saving / reducing his debt load:

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The bad news is Uncle Sam is increasing his more, which Joe and his kids must pay,
one way or the other (Higher taxes or less valuable dollar -the second for sure as few Congressmen are willing to be blamed for voting for higher taxes).

Note the "Clinton dip" ends in 2000. The debt is now more than 100% of GDP. No nation has survived > 90% debt/GDP ratio, except in either brief periods like WWII or in very unusually circumstances, like England did when it borrowed a lot to make the factories of the "industrial revolution" but that was a wise investment as they had an empire to sell the production to and no significant competition to cut the prices collected.

 

The good news is the the value of your home/real estate in Yukon, Canada has been increasing dramatically.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/story/2010/11/29/yukon-real-estate-prices.html

The bad news is that the minimum wage in the Yukon won't even come close to qualifying you for a mortgage.

http://www.workrights.ca/content.php?doc=235

So for those hoping to enter the first-time housing market, it's a serious challenge, as the costs of rental accommodation are on par with the cost of servicing a mortgage and the vacancy rate makes finding an habitable abode nigh insurmountable.

 

Here is the good news:

“…Researchers reviewed studies dating to 1977 that included more than 365,000 participants. Moderate drinkers were 23 percent less likely to develop cognitive impairment or Alzheimer's disease and other forms of dementia.

Wine was more beneficial than beer or spirits. But this finding was based on a relatively small number of studies, because most papers did not distinguish among different types of alcohol. …” From: http://www.pharmalive.com/pl-index-...fm?articleID=798940&categoryid=9&newsletter=1

Now the bad news:

With the collapsing economy, fewer and fewer can afford alcohol.

 

However, it is not terribly difficult to learn to make your own beer and wine at home. The initial equipment is not very expensive and the ingredients required are to be found in most grocery stores.

Recipes and other helpful tips proliferate on-line. No need even to buy a book to learn the process from anymore.

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Then it doesn't really count as Joe and his kids paying - it means the value of the debt will simply be inflated away. The people who made the loans, end up eating them, in other words.

That's only bad for Joe and his kids if they live off of savings or a fixed income or something. Or like to do a lot of international travel and buy a lot of imports. If they have a lot of debt themselves, it's a blessing to them. Likewise if they work in manufacturing or export sectors - which would be mightily revived by a serious devaluation of the dollar.

Not quite, but close.

? Japan has been way over that for years - currently well over 200%.

Singapore, Iceland, a few others as well.

Moreover, I think you mean "no national currency has survived > 90% debt/GDP ratio." I can't think of any examples where a nation has "died" from debt (heck, it's hard to find examples where a nation has "died" at all). You can surely find some politicians and political parties that have had their careers ended by debt problems, but I can't even think of a government that's been felled by such (let alone, a state or nation).

Or, what is it that you're trying to assert here? It's surely something less than what you wrote, which is that the USA, as a nation, is doomed to die.

 

The thing about the USA, to me is, it seems to be sucking worse and worse each time I return. WAY WAY before the GFC things were already sucking. The cities in particular. Just shit. Except maybe SF or Salt Lake City. So many poor, the violence, drugs, dilapidation, etc... and then there's the superficial nature of Americans. It's normal for kids to be superficial. Hell, it's probably a survival strategy. But adults?

I don't know. It's seems like rosters coming home to roost IMO.

 

The riots in the UK were one thing, whats gonna happen in the US....

 

All hell will open up and swallow this great experiment in tolerant bigotry.

 

Isn't that what Ron Paul is proposing? Liquidate the debt?

It will help manufacturing. Which is interesting isn't? How will Americans deal with living in a country where they work, but can't afford their own products? At least not as they do now.

It strikes me that all of these countries are, relatively, homogeneous. Japan probably most of all. The USA is culturally diverse. When was the last time "Americans" pulled together? 80 years ago?

Also, Japanese own Japanese debt. Whereas we seem to rely on other nations (Japan, China) buying our debt.

 

Japanese people save like crazy.

 

Hey Billy T..

Now the bad news:

With the collapsing economy, fewer and fewer can afford alcohol.

It is not just the collapsing economy..

Here in NZ the land of Number eight wire make do and win..

Most here would not how to make their own beer.

A long way from when i first arrived in this paradise of an outpost of the empire..

Luckly.. I was a quick learner we will survive..

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Come what may..

 

Certainly if Joe' kids are subjected to higher taxes, to collect back from society the excess currency printed (my first mentioned alternative) the debt will not be inflated way and they will pay more for Joe's living beyond his means.

If taxes are not raised, but simply more money is printed to pay Joe's debts, (my second alternative, and one US has chosen) it can go either way. I.e. the concept that one can "grow their way out of debt" is not always false; but for that to be the case the printing of money must not exceed the growth of the economy. When that is not so limited, then some of Joe's children, the frugal savers, will pay as their saving lose value. Other's of Joe's children, the "buy now, pay later, add it to my loan," ones will benefit, as you noted.

the lowest value for US debt to GDP that I have seen in the last few months is 95% and the highest (which still does not include future obligations written into law) is 110%.

I think most of the uncertanity is in the GDP. I have several posts pointing out that at least 2/3 of US GDP is pure consumption - has no more value a year later than a ticket to last year's NFL championships, and China's is at least 2/3 long term value creation, with only 1/3 at most current consumption. Any correction of GDP which eliminates the "no lasting value added" consumption can easily cut US GDP in half or double the debt to GDP ratio.

Yes, the study going back many centuries that showed no government (with two exceptions)* survived after > 90% debt to GDP ratio considered only the external debt. In the Japanese they have little external debt. They are a nation of savers - even make deposits in banks that pay zero nominal interest (negative real interest)! The Japanese debt's interest is thus an internal transfer of wealth of the worse kind - concentrates wealth. This always tends to produce stagnation, or recessions. GWB made two recessions this way, despite the stimulation of his wars. I.e. during his 8 years, money flowed upwards to the already rich - same as Japan has been doing for nearly three decades now. Any society that is to have middle class must have progressive taxation or some way to make money flow from the rich, not too them.

This is easy to prove with a simple math model that includes;(1) the fact that all have some expenses like food that are not vastly different for rich and poor, and (2) the "magic" of interest compounding (or in simple language: "It takes money to make money"). I have posted numerical examples of this concentration of wealth effect that always occurs if there is no means to force flow of money back towards the less wealthy. Wealth is now being concentrated in the US, mainly due the GWB's tax reductions for the already wealthy and the middle class is shrinking as a result. - It is simple math, "no new taxes" Republicans and tea party types appearently cannot understand.

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*The two exceptions are: (1) England at the start of the industrial revolution, had borrowed more than 100% of its GDP to build the factories that sold textiles,etc. to the world. Not only did they have captive empire to sell to, but no one else had their power looms, etc. - They were in a globally unique position.
(2) the US at the end of WWII. Its productive capacity had more than doubled and every ones else's with any had watched WWII greatly or totally destroy their's. Again: US was in a globally unique position.

Now things are quite different (except US debt to GDP is >90%) -Far from being in a globally unique competitive position the US is not even able to compete with Asia. The US is losing market share. For example, Brazil now buys more cars from China than the US and a decade ago bought none from China.