"Good" Atheists are going to heaven

Good Athiest Going To Heaven?

First your statement is a contradiction of terms. An athiest believes in no God, so how is it possible for an athiest to believe in Heaven?

Secondly, your detailed story about "Bill" is incorrect too. What human being is capable of living a good life as you laid out? There are none, so by you own illustration noone can enter Heaven because just one minor screw up and your hope is gone.

God views a paper clip thief the same way he views a murderer; God views a person who tells one little white lie the same as he views a rapist. We as humans put degrees on crimes. But God sees it as sin period. No matter how insignificant or big it may be to our standards, to God it is all the same.

And God does not judge us by our deeds here on earth because it is impossible for anyone to earn his or her own way into Heaven. Again one minor screw up and that's it.

But by the Grace of God through his Son Jesus Christ there is hope, because Jesus died the death we deserve. I'm not talking about Jesus going to the cross and dying physically. Jesus while on the cross was separated from God. "My God, My God, Why hast thou forsaken me." he yelled out from the cross.

It is not by works we are saved, but through the blood of Jesus Christ our Lord, our Savior, our redeemer and the ultimate sacrifice for all SIN. This is a "FREE" gift from God, and the only thing you can do with a gift is accept it or reject it, but that is each and every individuals decision.

So for everyone who dies without the blood of Jesus covering their SIN, they will go to hell for all eternity. Do not pass go, do not collect $200. When you are dead it is too late.

BTW: Just something to think about. For those who do not believe in eternity. I bet you feel on the inside the same way you did when you were five or six years old. True enough you grow knowledge and physically worn not being able to do the things you used to, but spiritually you haven't aged a bit. That's because our spirits has no age.

Science research has learned that the physical body upon death loses exactly two pounds. No matter the height, weight or age. It is their belief that this is the spirit leaving the body, because there is no other explaination as to why this loss in weight. Where does it go? Science hasn't the foggiest idea, but they agree it goes somewhere. I'd start rethinking about the after life.

 

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Ken12334,
No offense buddy, but your god sounds like a jerk.
Let me get this straight, before jesus, god was dooming millions of people to an eternity of pain and torture merely because he made them with the ability to "sin". Now, just because mere sinful humans teach us about jesus and god, we are expected to naturally believe them even though your god designed us with the tendency to question things. If a human was isolated from the world of the bible he would be doomed to burn in hell forever simply for being in the first place and not hearing about jesus or being able to be covered by his blood.
Why are we born to be punished for being born?
I don't buy it....

 

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Re: Good Athiest Going To Heaven?

Originally posted by Ken12334
First your statement is a contradiction of terms. An athiest believes in no God, so how is it possible for an athiest to believe in Heaven?
Just because you don't believe a place exists doesn't mean you can't go there. Also, most atheists believe that there is a chance... but decide that there is not a God.

And God does not judge us by our deeds here on earth because it is impossible for anyone to earn his or her own way into Heaven.
This is a poor argument. "Jesus forgave our sins" is at least consistent. The Bible talks about not letting people into heaven. How does he decide if it isn't by deeds. If there is a God as described in the Bible then he isn't stupid. He's fully capable of telling the difference between a minor and major screwup.

It is not by works we are saved, but through the blood of Jesus Christ our Lord, our Savior, our redeemer and the ultimate sacrifice for all SIN. This is a "FREE" gift from God, and the only thing you can do with a gift is accept it or reject it, but that is each and every individuals decision.
This is also somewhat faulty. There are millions of people who have never heard of Jesus. Are they all going to hell because they are isolated?

BTW: Just something to think about. For those who do not believe in eternity. I bet you feel on the inside the same way you did when you were five or six years old...
This is a nonsense sentence. What do you consider to be 'feeling' on the inside? Most consider that emotions, thought, and ideas... which obviosuly change over time.

Science research has learned that the physical body upon death loses exactly two pounds. No matter the height, weight or age. It is their belief that this is the spirit leaving the body, because there is no other explaination as to why this loss in weight.
Wow... I'd love to see a source on this... hopefully from someone who is in science and not a religious fanatic. Whoever told you this may have simply been 'lying for god'.

 

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I've actually heard a body gets heavier when it is dead.
"dead weight" ?

 

Re: Good Athiest Going To Heaven?

I think you should, there isn't any!

 

Re: Re: Good Athiest Going To Heaven?

I'd just like to poitn out that this view as as much basis as the belief in an afterlife. Both are unable to be proven.

 

No. We are saved by grace, not by works. Saddly, some people, knowing that they go to Heaven, sins. Sometimes I wished it weren't that way, but God knows what He is doing. He says that faith is more important then works. He also says that it is through works of faith working through Love that we should live our lives. And yet, who among us can do that? And who among us is totally sinless?

 

I plan on going to that place all good Atheists go when they die: Oblivion!

 

No.
It isn't.
I said:

Why is it so difficult for SO MANY people to see this?
He did not believe in God.
He died.
He found out that he was wrong, because he found himself at the gates of Heaven.
What is so difficult to understand??
If I say, "I don't believe that Ohio exists, then I find myself in Ohio, obviously I was WRONG.
I think this concept of being wrong in your beliefs is so hard for Christians to understand because I have yet to meet a single Christian who had the ability to state the words, "I COULD be wrong, but this is what I believe...".

and...

OK, So why bother having the Ten Commandments?
If your actions on Earth are meaningless, then what is the point of governing them?
So, if our actions here are meaningless and pointless and stealing a peperclip is akin to being a mass murderer, then what is the point of making a distinction between right and wrong behavior?
Why not just break every commandment and all the seven deadly sins and eat meat on Fridays and kill and disobey your parents and call God an asshole, then on your deathbed, say, "I'm sorry Jesus." That would be your backstage pass to heaven, right?

That is absurd.
If actions on earth do not matter, there would BE no Commandments.

And Christians call Atheists lost!

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Faith is the spirit, works is the body. We survive physically, in this world, by works - it is important for our relationships with people, it is how faith gets expressed. Ever had someone say they loved you who never did anything to show it? Works won't survive if it gets tested, just like the body falls apart and becomes dust when death claims it. By faith in God we mean we depend on God's grace to save us from that "death" by works.

The commandments (the "law") brought judgement and death (Romans 7). By laws we know what is right and wrong. But love has no rules, only an intention. The laws of the Bible are useless without love. That is why the whole of the law is summarised with "love the Lord with your whole heart and mind and all your strength, and your neghbour like yourself". This is the meaning that Jesus brought to it. The commandments are not sufficient, and were replaced with a new covenant between God and man.

1 Corinthians 15:56
The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law.

This is all explained in Romans 7 and 8 - I doubt you will go to the trouble of reading it, but I will post the parts that are necessary to understand what I've said.

----
Rom.7:4 ...you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit to God. 5For when we were controlled by the sinful nature, the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in our bodies, so that we bore fruit for death. 6But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.

Rom.8:1Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death. 3For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in sinful man, 4in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit.
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The Spirit (faith) does what the law (works) cannot do. It's not a matter of 'the one or the other' - it's a question of good judgement, 'when, where and why'.

 

haven and hell

Children, Children stop debating, when you are going to understand that is not haven or hell.

 

one_raven,

Because there is a Law of cause and effect. God talks about this Law with the metaphor of sowing and reaping. It is all over the Bible including the New Testament. The difference is that with Jesus there is a continuous forgiveness, where you can always draw and fix what you have done wrong. For instance, you do something wrong. This wrong thing causes you to get sick. You are forgiven from what you did (means that the works that you did won't produce), so you claim your forgiveness and get healed.

Just because Jesus have forgiven us, that doesn't mean that we should keep sinning. That only means that now we have a new freedom in Him where we don't need to worry everyday if we will sin. So we can focus on something more important: Loving God. If you Love God, you will do what He commands. And He commands us to follow the Law, He commands us to Love one another. He wants us to follow the Law so that we can be a blessing not only for ourselves, but also for others. That is the importance of the Law. The Law is made in His image. Through the Law we become like Him. That is the significance of the Law.

Again, they are not meaningless. You reap what you sow.

That answers all your questions. Also read Jenyar's post. And I add... For grace, read Romans. For works, read James 2. For the difference between the Old Testament and New Testament read Hebrews.

 

From a modern athiest stand point there are good reasons to be good, without the need of divine punishment.

 

There is no punishment.

 

And you see no contradiction in that at all?

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Of course not! What contradiction there is? There is not even judgement! What you do is what you receive back. It's a natural law. The universe can't exist without this law!

 

One raven,

Truth is one of the less knowledgable theists on this forum. While it's fun to point out his misconceptions and confusion not much is gained. There are others who actually have enough knowledge to debate.

 

Tell me what physically prevents the universe from not existing if there is no divine law???

 

If the god protrayed as judging by faith, not by deeds, truly exists, then it seems to me that anyone he creates with a skeptical mind he has already judged. I don't see anything but black and white here, you either believe with full faith in salvation, or there are degrees of doubt, and any doubt is enough to condemn you.

I've never got a clear cut answer...how is someone supposed to believe something purely from faith, if they are the type who tend to question the world around them? Don't any believers have doubts inside? And why is a doubt, even a small one, any more okay than an atheist's doubt? An atheist is just one step away from being a converted believer, he just needs more than you do.

In a world that would be judged by actions, only those meeting a standard of behavior would make it to heaven. In a world judged only on faith, anyone who believes in Jesus can get in. I know the line is that God works in mysterious ways, and who are we to question his motives, but it doesn't make much sense to me, if heaven is a "good residence only" place.

 

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I'm talking about the law of cause and effect. Without that law, nothing would be possible...

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