On the Trinity and the Faces of God

Discussion in 'General Philosophy' started by SlidesandScaffolds, Sep 13, 2011.

  1. leopold Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    17,455
    who cares whether you are male or female?

    let me massage that gray matter baby !

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!



    meh.
     
  2. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  3. SlidesandScaffolds Registered Member

    Messages:
    96
    Christ is a mediator in the sense that He provides an example, in both the way we should live our lives and the power of sacrifice.

    With the countless betrayals by individual men and the amount of sin accumulated, the gap between the perfection desired by God and the imperfections of Man grew larger. For all of the bad that man was responsible for, there should have been a complete turning away by God (as He had done before in the lives of Jews, but this would have been on a more drastic level.). He is a just God, and a consequence was required for the sin.

    However because He is also a loving God, He manifested physically and took the consequence on His own shoulders. We should have been destroyed or abandoned, but instead Christ was sent in our place. While on the cross, Christ took on the burdens and sins of mankind, and the Father aspect turned away from Him. Utterly and completely. Yet, Christ is of the essence of God, and He rose again, cleaning the slate.

    Now, as Christians, we are supposed to follow Christ's teachings and help the other people around us live life with the same abundance of love that God showed us. I do not think we do a perfect job, but that is why we pray for guidance and forgiveness when we fail. Christ took it on Himself to take the punishment meant for us, and all He asks is that we spread the word of God which is this:

    Love the Lord God because He loved you first and sent His son to die for you. If you can believe the sacrifice He made for you, you will be granted eternal life. Whether this means an actual physical manifestation of the soul in a place called Heaven, or whether it means the eternal mark you leave behind while promoting the goodness and well-being of man, I cannot say.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2011
  4. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  5. Mind Over Matter Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,205
    God is personification of strength, goodness, creative power, etc. When people say things like this, it has the effect of alienating people from embracing these aspects of human potential. A truly strong, good, creatively powerful person wants to see these positive attributes in others as well. They are not out to dominate and belittle others because they don't need to be happy. People who regard others as insignificant amoebas are usually those who feel weak, dominated, cynical regarding goodness and creativity, and/or that power is inherently dangerous and corrupting. Those are the people that want to regard themselves and others as insignificant and small because they fear power and the responsibility that comes with it.
     
  6. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  7. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    19,252
    Um, so god's not omnipresent or omniscient then? He doesn't keep an eye on each and every one us? (Somebody claimed this recently - in the last couple of hours, but I can't find the post).

    Oh well, I'm sorted then.
     
  8. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    19,252
    @ MoM. Er, quite.
    Whatever THAT has to do with the topic. :shrug:
     
  9. SlidesandScaffolds Registered Member

    Messages:
    96
    Yes, God is good, strong, and creative. That is why He wants us to strive to spread that goodness, strength, and creativity in the world He has given us.

    The fact of the matter is that we do not always do this. We needed a mediator to show us what true sacrifice for the love He represents is. We needed to be shown that a man could do right by the laws set down by God, and then when everyone ridiculed Him, mocked Him, and said He was a fool, He stood calmly and without hate. Then we were shown what the cruelty and sins of man can do to a fellow creature who did nothing but spread the message that God is love. If we can believe that sort of sacrifice happened at all, surely we can believe we are capable of it ourselves. We too can spread the word that God is love.

    I'm not trying to make anyone feel small or insignificant. I'm trying to open our eyes to the fact that humanity is a human quality buried deep inside of us, and if we can access it with a little faith, maybe that's the right thing to do. That is the philosophy I live my life with.
     
  10. SlidesandScaffolds Registered Member

    Messages:
    96
    Sorry. The lack of sleep is kicking in again, and my skills with the English language are backsliding. He does watch over us, but He can withdraw His hand in your life: the amount of guidance He gives, the way in which He speaks to you, etc. I would quote scripture here, but honestly this thread wasn't supposed to be about the theology behind all of this.
     
  11. Frishman Registered Member

    Messages:
    22
    But to actually answer your question, Ddr, yes, G-d is omniscient.

    Funny enough, it's the only power actually ascribed to G-d in the Bible. Nowhere does it say that He's omnipotent or omnipresent. But omniscience basically comes out to the same thing, once you take it to its logical extremity.

    I think what they're trying to say is that He keeps His eye out for us, but to G-d the Father we're the naughty little child who's only doing good so that he can get the motorbike. To G-d the Son we're capable of doing good for goodness' sake. Surprisingly, this isn't contradictory to the nature of G-d. G-d the Father has always been the stern father, while G-d the Son is more like the loving older brother who explains to his father that the stupid son doesn't really mean it and he's really trying to be good. G-d the Holy Spirit is that little bit of the Father that we inherited, which tries to make us more like Him.

    I think somehow I got back to the discussion of the Trinity interpretations.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2011
  12. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    19,252
    Hmmm.

    But since god (the father) is omniscient he'd know that anyway, no? :shrug:
     
  13. SlidesandScaffolds Registered Member

    Messages:
    96
    Yes He knows that, but maybe like us, He likes to hear it anyway

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  14. leopold Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    17,455
    as a matter of fact the bible implies the opposite.
    satan is one of gods angels which "fell from grace".
    this implies an imperfect creator.
    for some reason i can't buy "a god", it's unlikely, and it goes against reason.

    god must be egotistical, why else would we not be able to comprehend him, it, they? this statement can be tricky.

    anyway . . . a "supernatural force"? maybe. a ghostlike spirit roaming around? highly unlikely.
     
  15. SlidesandScaffolds Registered Member

    Messages:
    96
    The philosophy behind the devil/satan/lucifer has always been a tricky one. I think this goes back to the issue of choice. In order to give man a choice at all, God proposed an antagonist. In scripture demons/fallen angels don't actually have more power than what is given to them by God (see Job, Mark 1:27, etc (for more etc, feel free to message me)).

    However, the above philosophy is based on the notion you actually have faith in the Judeo-Christian God and the text on which His existence is based.
     
  16. Frishman Registered Member

    Messages:
    22
    According to various alternative Christian beliefs which were viciously and brutally stamped out by the Catholic Church during its founding only to resurface later and be brutally and viciously stamped out (please note I am Catholic, and I reserve the right to bring up my Church's sordid history), there was a belief that the Old Testament Yahweh (somehow this doesn't count in my head) was, in fact, an imperfect being which claimed to be G-d, much like a fallen angel.

    However, for most mainstream Christians, Lucifer, the Morning Star, Archangel in charge of the Heavenly Choir, wanted only to praise G-d, and imitation happens to be the highest form of flattery. However, it should be noted that Satan, throughout the Bible, continues to serve under G-d. The whole book of Job is about this. There can be no light without dark to compare it to, just as there can be no good without evil. So, Satan's "Fall" isn't the result of an imperfect Creator, but a necessity to continue the Creator's Plan, that plan being to have a race of thinking, living creatures who have something that an omniscient being, theoretically, does not: the ability to choose.

    I'll be honest, i never considered it from that perspective until just now. I think I just made myself a heathen.

    Oh, and we wouldn't be able to comprehend a race or a singular immortal, all-powerful, all-knowing creature because we aren't.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2011
  17. SlidesandScaffolds Registered Member

    Messages:
    96
    Actually, we also haven't introduced the following idea yet, but I think it's time.

    A supreme being capable of anything could theoretically choose when and when not to exercise His power. As in, He has the capability to see what happens at the end, but doesn't necessarily use that power.

    Sort of like when you program a new episode on your DVR. You could fast forward and see who killed the Doctor at the end of the episode, but then if you were going to do that, you might as well IMDB the show. There would be no joy or excitement surrounding the watching.
     
  18. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    19,252
    River Song.

    Oops, just call me Lucifer....

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  19. SlidesandScaffolds Registered Member

    Messages:
    96
    Off Topic:: I think that would be an amazing crossover and would pay good money to see it.

    Sorry! Thought that read River Tam, not Song. Need to read faster...and more efficiently...and spoilers!
     
  20. Frishman Registered Member

    Messages:
    22
    Although, I must admit a Doctor Who/Stories of the Bible crossover would be hilarious.
     
  21. leopold Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    17,455
    maybe god can't exist without satan.
    who is god to be compared with?
     
  22. Frishman Registered Member

    Messages:
    22
    G-d. He does that, too.

    Alternatively, you.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2011
  23. SlidesandScaffolds Registered Member

    Messages:
    96
    I'm not comparing Him to anyone. I have said time and again that I do not fathom the mind of God. This is why it's theory and philosophy, not actual doctrine.
     

Share This Page