does anybody know who or what are Eloheems?

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by divinebrn, Feb 10, 2003.

  1. divinebrn Registered Member

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    anybody up for the debate
     
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  3. Nehushta Registered Senior Member

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    Elohim is the plural form of the Hebrew word for god ("el" or "eloh"). According to Jews, the way it is used in Genesis, it is supposed to be like the "Royal we" - i.e., the plural form used as a singular noun (e.g., imagine the Queen of England saying of herself, "We are not amused").

    Of course, Pagan that I am, I have my own ideas about why the plural form was used...
     
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  5. ConsequentAtheist Registered Senior Member

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    Sure. Do you have a proposition to debate, or are you simply pissing in the wind?
     
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  7. divinebrn Registered Member

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    Eloheem

    No actually I AM just pissing in the wind, as you say. Joined a study group that generally depicts the Bible in a whole new light. Surfing the web and found this sight pretty interesting wanted to know other views on the subject. Not saying I am an athiest, just never really believed in religion--at all

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  8. divinebrn Registered Member

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    @ Nehusta

    Why do you think the word was used?
     
  9. Nehushta Registered Senior Member

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    Re: @ Nehusta

    Well, before there was monotheism, there was polytheism, of course. I think Judaism evolved over the centuries from being a polytheistic religion to a monotheistic one. Perhaps the earliest writings reflect this?
     
  10. Cupric What's a wookie? Registered Senior Member

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    Nehushta,

    Not only that, Genesis itself (1:26, 3:22 and 11:7) shows Lord God talking to or about other gods, and there are several other instances scattered about in the bible.

    (PS - nice to see another Pagan 'round these parts!

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  11. Nehushta Registered Senior Member

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    Merry meet, Cupric!

    Of course, Christians will quickly tell you that since Jesus existed from the beginning of time, it was Jesus that God was talking to in the Garden of Eden and at Babel. I know this because my mom is a born-again Fundamentalist Christian, so I've pretty much heard 'em all.

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    By the way, have you read the CAW article called, "We Are the Other People"? It's kind of amusing, in an irreverent sort of way, and it discusses the use of the word "Elohim". Enjoy!
     
  12. divine sapience Registered Senior Member

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    okay brain!

    ELOHIM - the plural splendor of the creator god as pluralis excellentiae,plural excellence.the creator gods/divinities of YHVH who control the calibrations of light necessary to evolve all he combinations of the image and similitude through the eternal eye of the divine father.this is why creation beginswith "Berseshith bara Elohim,"for it is the creato gods"who have created the world by the will of Yahweh. this plural title of the creative godhead apppears most frequntly (over 2,500 times)in the old testament as an affirmation of the majesty and magnitude of the creation.
    Beginning with Genisis,Elohim,"creator gods"is used for the higher creation. its is only after Enoch as a father gave birth in time (Gen.5:21) and walked with the true GOD(Gen.5:22),that the hebrew expression haElohim,however,is introduced in the bible,as applying to the revealed creator divinity behind the veils of creaton.
     
  13. divinebrn Registered Member

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    Do you think these GODS are from another planet. Meaning that they still exist? Have you ever read The Twelth Planet, pretty interesting piece of literature

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  14. Nehushta Registered Senior Member

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    If you like Sitchin's work, you might also try Erich Von Daniken's works - to the best of my knowledge, he was the first writer to introduce the idea that the earth may have been visited by aliens in his book, Chariots of the Gods.
     
  15. platzapS Registered Senior Member

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    Possibly may they be aliens? Angels maybe?
     
  16. Jenyar Solar flair Valued Senior Member

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    Case in point

    This website examines some of the instances where God refers to Himself as Elohim (plural). Here is a quote:

    Testing the Trinitarian 'hypothesis'

    Elohim, and even the angels, seem to be representations of our interaction with (one) God.
     
  17. Darwin Disciple Evo v CS advocate Registered Senior Member

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    Yes, Elohim is plural. The word "Elohim" has been mistranslated as God in the singular but it is a plural, which means "those who came from the sky". Elohim is actually the name of an extra-terrestrial race who created life on earth through their genetic engineering. Leaving our humanity to progress by itself, the Elohim nevertheless maintained contact with us via prophets including Buddha, Moses, Jesus and Mohammed, all specially chosen and educated by them. The role of the prophets was to progressively educate humanity through the messages they taught, each time adapted to the culture and level of understanding at the time. They were also to leave traces of the Elohim so that we would be able to recognise them as our creators and fellow human beings when we had advanced enough scientifically to understand them. An example of what they left behind was the Great Pyramid, utilizing materials here on earth. They left markings and clues within the pyramid for us to figure out and when that time comes, then we are ready to receive the coming of the Elohim.













    Of course, this is only true if you believe in the Raelian Revolution.

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  18. TheVisitor The Journey is the Reward Registered Senior Member

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    Eloheem
    No actually I AM just pissing in the wind, as you say. Joined a study group that generally depicts the Bible in a whole new light. Surfing the web and found this sight pretty interesting wanted to know other views on the subject. Not saying I am an athiest, just never really believed in religion--at all

    ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

    Taken from a tape recorded sermon of William Branham titled:
    (HEBREWS CHAPTER 1) Jeffersonville, In, Aug 21, 1957

    Some preacher said to me some time ago, said, "Brother Branham, you wouldn't actually think that was God, would you?"
    I said, "The Bible said It was God, Elohim," which He was Almighty God, the El Shaddai (That's right), the Strength-Giver, the Satisfier. Amen. Oh, I feel religious. Think of it.
    Here He is now. I'm going to show you Who He is here, and then you'll see Who the Son is; that was Jesus before He had the human Name Jesus.
    Stood there at the fountain that day... And they was all drinking, you know, and "Having the waters that was in the wilderness," and things like that. (He said... ) "They was eating their manna..."
    Somebody said, "Our fathers eat manna in the wilderness for forty years."
    He said, "And they're every one dead." Said, "I'm the Bread of Life that come from God out of heaven. He that eats this Bread shall never die."
    Said, "Well, our fathers drank from a spirit--from a spiritual Rock that was in the wilderness, that followed them."
    He said, "I'm that Rock." Glory. St. John the 6th chapter...
    Why, they said, "What?"
    "Yes, that's right."
    Why, he said, "You are... You're not even fifty years old." ('Course, His work made Him look a little old, but He was only thirty.) Said, "You're a man not over fifty years old, and you say you've seen Abraham that's been dead for eight or nine hundred years. We know now that you're a devil."
    He said, "Before Abraham was, I AM." There He is. Who was the I AM? A perpetual Name for all generations. That was the--that Pillar of Fire in the burning bush: "I AM THAT I AM." There He was, that Theophany made here, called the Son of God, the I AM, the Jehovah.
    HEBREWS.CHAPTER.1.title JEFF.IN HEB 57-0821
    25-158 057 Thomas said, "Lord, show us the Father and it'll satisfy us.
    Said, "I've been so long with you and you don't know Me?" Said, "When you see Me, you see the Father. And why say, 'show us, Thou the Father'? I and the Father are One. My Father dwelleth in Me. I'm just a Tabernacle called the Son. The Father dwells in Me. Not Me that doeth the works, it's My Father that dwelleth in Me. He doeth the works, not Me."
    Now, standing back there again... Moses seen Him, the hind part of Him, said, "Looked like the back of a man," the Logos that went from God.
    Then what happened? This was God, and the reason He had become from Logos to flesh... What? How did He... What happened to that? Five minutes before that He was the--He was the Logos. But what did He do? He just reached over...
    Now, our bodies are made out of sixteen different elements of the world. We know that. It's made out of potash, and--and--and a little calcium, and--and petroleum, and cosmic light, and atoms and so forth, all bundled together and makes this body. Comes from the dust of the earth. Now, and here... This great Theophany standing there... What... That great Jehovah God, you know what He said? He just reached over and got a handful of atoms, got a little light, and poured it in like this, and went... [Brother Branham blows--Ed.]... A body, and just stepped right into it, and that's all.
    Said, "Come here, Gabriel (that great Archangel)," went [Brother Branham blows--Ed.] "Step in that. Come here, Michael (the Angel on His right side [Brother Branham blows--Ed.] for the Jew), step in that."
    God and two Angels walked down here in human flesh, and drank the milk from a cow, eat the butter out of the milk, and eat some corn bread, and eat the flesh of the calf: two Angels and God. The Bible said so. That's Melchisedec that Abraham met coming from the slaughter of the kings. That's the Son of God.
    HEBREWS.CHAPTER.1.title JEFF.IN HEB 57-0821
    27-168 060 Go ahead here in the Hebrews the 7th, said, "But made in the order of--like unto the Son of God." There He is. He made all things by Him. And He walked right out there, and just changed that dust right back to dust again, and stepped right back into glory.
    And the Angels, as soon as they delivered Lot and Mrs. Lot... And she kept looking back. He said--told them not to do it again... And they stepped right back into--to the Presence of God.
    Now, what a great hope we have in this great faith that we serve tonight. The living God, the Jehovah, the Pillar of Fire is with us, shows Himself in power, and action, and magnify... Let--let them take the picture of Him, the same Jehovah, the Son of God that came from God, went back to God, and dwells in His Church forevermore. There He is.

    The picture he's refering to is here:
    http://freie-volksmission.org/english/
    Click on the picture for info on how it was taken.
     
  19. SwedishFish Conspirator Registered Senior Member

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    i seem to remember something about a female counterpart to god in hebrew lore but she had her own names. this goddess was part of popular religion (as opposed to high religion of the temples). women made statues of her and worshipped her privately in their homes (since they weren't allowed at temple i think). damn if i can't remember her name. she was supposed to to help women in every aspect of femaleness. maybe that's what was meant by plural god but it's only my guess.
     
  20. TheVisitor The Journey is the Reward Registered Senior Member

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    You want to see who Elohim really was, and is today - Read This:

    Luke 17:30 " Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed"

    The sign of the Messiah - The Son of Man revealed today:

    Taken from the tape of a healing service at the end of a sermon preached by William Branham in 1962 - this disernment was shown thousands of times - without one single error.

    This is the REAL thing - the ones on T.V. today are trying to immitate, but can't..........

    ..................................................
    Let's just take for a start these crowd in this way. How many there that doesn't know me, and I don't know you, and you're sick, and you believe that God can reveal to you your trouble? Raise up your hands. All you there that hasn't got prayer cards, and you want something from God, raise up your hand. In here? Over here? You pray.
    Let me turn my back. You pray. The Angel that appeared in human flesh had His back turned to the tent where Sarah was, and He told Sarah what she did. Is that right? That same Angel was God. And the same God that was there was promised by Jesus, Who was God, to appear in these last days before the burning of the earth, just like He did in the days of Sodom. Do you believe it?
    'Course it's a vision. There's people standing there I don't know. It'd be up to Him. Here it is, if I can find where it was. Yep. The lady setting right here, heavy-set, did you raise your hand a few minutes ago? You believe God will heal that rheumatism for you and make you well? If you do, raise up your hand. All right. You can have it. What did she touch?
    The man setting next to her, what do you think, brother? Do you think that comes from God? You do? You believe God can tell me what's your trouble? Would you believe it? Would you accept it if I could tell you through God's Spirit? I'm talking to you, you're setting close to me. You believe it? Will you believe it? All right then, your high blood pressure will leave you.
    That man setting next to you had the same thing, a little thin man there. He had high blood pressure too. If that's true, raise up your hands, both of you. Hallelujah. Go believing. Don't doubt. What did they touch? They never touched me. I don't know the people. I've never seen them in my life. You're all strangers to me. That's right. If you'd just believe, that's all you have to do.
    Here's a little lady setting right back here, looking right at me. She's just tearing into the Kingdom of God. She's praying for her unsaved sons. If you'll believe with all your heart, they'll be saved. Will you believe it? All right. You can have it. You believe, all of you?
    You believe God will heal that nervousness for you, sir, setting there? You was asking to do it right then. All right. It's all over. You have it.
    The little lady setting right here, praying for that grandchild, you believe that God will make it well? Retarded, but you believe that God will make it well? You believe it with all your heart? Planning on bringing it to church tomorrow night. You won't have to. God will make it well, and you can bring it. How about it, lady? You believe it? All right. You can have it.
    I'm a total stranger to the woman. I don't know her at all. Never seen her in my life. Are we strangers to one another, lady? If it is, raise up your hand. Wasn't that what you was praying for? If it was, wave your hand like that. Don't you see? Elohim, God. How can you doubt? Can't you be persistent?
    Just to start it in the line... Now, you have a prayer card. They didn't. Do you believe me to be His servant? Do you believe I've told you the truth tonight on God's Word? I don't know you, never seen you in my life. We're strangers as far as I know. But do you believe if God can tell me what's wrong with you, or something you--something that you... You'll know whether it's the truth or not. You know what has... If I can tell you what has been, and tell you what will be, why, you know that will be right.
    You're not here for yourself; you're standing for somebody else. And that person's not here. That's your wife. She's in another state. She's in Georgia. She's got kidney trouble. She's very sick, got complications. That is right, isn't it? You believe with all your heart now? Go home and find her the way you believed it. Don't doubt. "If thou canst believe, all things are possible to those who believe." Amen.
    That was a man. Here's a woman. Let's have just one more, and then we'll start just praying for the sick, see if we can get down that line. Come near me, sister. I believe we're strangers one to another. We don't... We're just two people that met here, the very same way it's in a panoramic like this at Sychar there, where Jesus met the woman at the well. Here we are, man and woman met first time in life.
    Oh, my. How I wish--I wish that--that I could see the power of Satan moved away. How can we stand and see this and then not believe?
    Here's a man and woman. We've never seen one another. She's just a woman standing here. I don't know one thing. I've never seen her in my life. Now, what about it? I don't know one thing. Well, what is it? God promised it. God's Word says so.
    He promised me that one night up yonder, many years ago, said I was born for this. I believe it. Tens of thousands of times, around the world, and not one time it's ever failed. What is it? It's showing you that the time is at hand. It isn't me; it's Him. How do I know this woman?
    Little old brother had his son healed. He said, "I know it has to be God, Brother Branham. People in my neighborhood I know, they said..." I know it's a promise for the last day and it's here. The Bible in Malachi 4 promised it. He said it must come to pass before the great and terrible day of the Lord shall come, that shall burn the earth. And we know we're living in that day.
    Here's two people standing here. I don't know the woman. 4, 5, 6, 7 or whatever it was--was out there, and there's a whole line, if I could only stand here long enough. And that's what I'm trying to do now, get myself shook away enough that I can go on with the prayer line. Does something to you, and it's a constant like a throb out there in that audience. It's faith.
    Oh, if you could just ever just break through that little barrier there, get free, like a bird getting out of a cage: he's got the wings; just get out the door.
    Lady, just to talk to you a minute now, I don't know you, but God does know you. Then if something you'll have to say that... If He will tell me something about you, what you're here for, like the woman touched His garment or something on that order, some Bible sign to show that it... You--you know it has to be something, because I don't know you. Then, if you--if it would... You'd know whether it'd be truth or not, 'cause you know about it. And then, if it is the truth, my, wouldn't that be wonderful? My, certainly would.
    Now. The lady's very sick. I see it now. I see her at the doctor's. She's been turned down by the doctor. She's suffering with all kinds of complications. One thing, you got a hernia, and you're supposed to have an operation. And you've got such a bad heart till there's no doctor will take the case. That's THUS SAITH THE LORD. But there is One here will take the case. Glory. Don't doubt. Glory. Keep believing with all your heart. Do you believe? Amen.

    If you want to listen to the whole tape and read the transcribed text taken down verbatim - click http://www.nathan.co.za/message.asp?sermonum=836[/url]
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2003
  21. Taken Registered Senior Member

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    599
    Not only was God always plural in the original Hebrew text...its also important to note the Actions were always singular. This fact gives a whole new dimension to how you view the plurality of God and weather or not you can seperate "Them" completely. I suppose I tend to view God more as multiple (infinatly) asspects acting as one. If that makes sense.
     
  22. Darwin Disciple Evo v CS advocate Registered Senior Member

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    You haven mistaken God for the extra-terrestrial race called Elohim.
     
  23. TheVisitor The Journey is the Reward Registered Senior Member

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    2,046
    The plurality you see in reference to Elohim is because of this:

    Genesis 1:26, when He was El, Elah, Elohim, the all-sufficient, the self-existing One. And then in Him was attributes of Father, Son, Holy Spirit: not three gods, three offices in Him that He was to live in those dispensations. He was a Saviour; He was a King; He was a God. All these things displayed theirself. It's the attributes of God (See?), but in that, in Him at the beginning...
    UNFAILING.REALITIES.OF.GOD.title JEFF.IN V-16 N-1 60-0626
    112 045 And when God made man in His own image, He put him on the earth as a lesser god. Jesus declared it when He said, "Is not it written in your laws, that you are gods? And if they called those gods who the Word of God come to (which was the prophets), how can you condemn Me when I say I'm the Son of God?" He said. See? They just couldn't understand it. See? But man was put here with a dominion over the earth. He had everything under his control.

    There's the reason for your plurality, it was His attributes in the beginning, yet unexpressed.
     

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