Atheists, how did the universe get here?

I know of Kaku. I've read most of his books.

Can you offer proof of this?

 

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Atheism is a lack of belief in god(s).

Having a belief in a god does not imply that god is creator of the Universe.

So you might as well ask the question of people who are not stamp collectors. Or stamp collectors, as neither atheists, stamp collectors, non-stamp collectors, or even some theists, have a particular opinion on this subject.

 

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Exactly,... and arguments like 'God Always existed' implies God existed for eternity, before creating the Universe, and therefore as eternity hasn't passed yet, still hasn't gotten around to it

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So theists say 'god exists outside of time', ie, not in our Universe. God cannot be logically included.

 

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skaught

The singularity we call the Big Bang created our Universe, but what caused that event we haven't a clue(though there are hints given by what emerged on this side), nor do we know anything about what kind of Universe existed prior to that event, nor can we say that "something" has ever existed outside of our Universe(IE cyclical, multiverse, etc.). "I don't know" is a perfectly acceptable answer in science, it certainly beats making stuff up.

But we can say a great deal about our Universe on this side of the singularity. It was born ~13.7 billion years ago, that time and space were created at that instant, that what emerged was pure energy(zero entropy), that it has been expanding and will continue to expand forever(rules out the Big Crunch and a cyclical Universe), that our Universe is of a finite size and is unbounded(no edges), that we can currently see the entire Universe but that in actuallity most of the stuff the furthest from us has already exceeded the speed of light from our perspective(we can still see it now because we are seeing it as it was 13.7 billion years ago, not as it is in the present), that space and time are one whole thing(spacetime)and inseperable, that the visible matter in that space time is only ~4% of what is really there, heck, we even have baby pictures of the Universe when it was about 300,000 years old!

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Nothing in this post is speculation, it is true to the best of our current evidence and understanding. But it has nothing to do with my being an Atheist. Atheism is not a belief system, it is simply the lack of a belief system that is based on the supernatural and that is all.

Grumpy

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That is not exactly true because we have a pretty good "head start" so to speak. We know and can observe a 13.7B year old Universe. So we aren't making an assertion that the Universe is here. We know it's here. We are currently brainstorming ideas on how it got here. One idea that has to be considered is that it always was here.

Most theists, on the other hand, make that leap that God is here and has always been here. A very different basis a the heart of the proposition.

 

The fact is atheists don't have to have an explanation for the origin of the universe. Even if we don't know, that doesn't mean God did it.

 

Lots of good posts so far. Very thought provoking.

Good point, but does it also mean that there cannot be or is not a God? And before you answer, please see my definition of this God in post #33.

 

The idea is that a consciousness started the universe. This makes no sense inherently because consciousness is complex. The universe apparently evolves from a simple to a more complex state as it cools and undergoes phase transitions. It's much more likely for a simple thing to arise spontaneously than a complex one. We can see this in the Casimir effect. Virtual particles are appearing and disappearing all the time. Yet we have never seen anything complex arise spontaneously. Complex things grow and evolve from simpler things. You would still have to explain how a complex creator arose, so all your work is still ahead. The Big Bang theory has no such flaws.

 

Invoking a something in order to explain why there is something instead of nothing doesn't actually achieve anything. Think about it. It's actually absurd.

You just have to stretch your brain a little more; to explore that additional level of abstraction properly. Then you will plainly see that the same basic question is still hanging out there: why is there a something (that supposedly explains why there is something instead of nothing), instead of nothing?

 

Rav

What leads you to think there is a why? What, where, when and how are questions that can have objective answers, why is more a subjective question often requiring intent, intent is not seen in the Universe, I don't know how one could determine why the Universe exists, but it is because it does that we do, not the other way round. You should probably just acknowledge that there is no why evident, not try to make up an answer to a question that has none.

Grumpy

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@Grumpy

All I'm doing here is pointing out that invoking something to account for why there is something instead of nothing doesn't actually answer the question of why there is something instead of nothing.

The truth is that in my opinion, the question itself is in error.

 

I always assumed it took the bus, car insurance is expensive.

 

Whether something is a universe or not is relative to what is perceiving, interacting or existing within it, imho.

Hi. Great forum. I'm new.

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Welcome! I'm honored to have your first post be on my thread!

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Why do you ask?

 

I don't have the faintest idea. I'm inclined to give some credence to the "big-bang" idea, but I don't have a clue why there was an original big-bang. I don't know what existed before the bang, or even if the idea of there having been a 'before' before the commencement of extended space-time makes physical sense.

Admitting that doesn't incline me towards theism as an answer though, since the existence of "God" is even more problematic in my view. We don't know what "God" supposedly is, or even if "God" exists in the first place, let alone where "God" originally came from.

The theists will typically reply that "God" is eternal, or exists necessarily or something. I don't know how they supposedly know all that. And they still haven't explained why there's an eternal or a necessary being in the first place, instead of nothing at all. Let alone explained what this hypothetical eternal and/or necessary being has to do with the personal divinity of their chosen religious myths.

 

What is your reasoning that that question is in error?

 

The real and honest answer - not from an atheist but from a sceptic and rationalist - is that "we are not quite sure we completely know that yet". We know some things, and we are pretty sure of them, they are demonstrably true, but we dont quite have the full picture yet.

 

Well, there's a difficult question to answer. I kind of already explained it above. But I'll elaborate, and give you some of my personal history.

I was raised religious, Catholic... *shudder*. At about 16 I left the faith and became an atheist. Or rather, I tried being an atheist, but always felt like I was being dishonest with myself. Life, and the universe, and existence just seem to make more sense to me with the idea of a "God". Now don't get me wrong, it makes no sense to me through the perspective of a Xtian or any kind of religion. Kaballah comes close to fitting in with my beliefs, and kind of combined with Buddhism.

At any rate, I still just can't seem to get the idea (or belief) of God out of my head. Not that I am trying to push it out per se. I just can't seem to comprehend or make sense of life, the universe and everything without "God" in the equation. And I am trying to understand how a brain works that has that equation taken out so to speak.

So as I stand right now, I think there is a higher consciousness. I don't believe or ascribe to any religion. I think it set the initial spark that set off the big bang. After that, I have no particular beliefs.

Mind you, I use the word "Belief" loosely. This isn't really what I believe, it's just what makes sense to me. I attribute it to the fact that I was raised religious, and genuinely believed it until I was about 16. I don't think it's possible for me to de-program that.

 

A deist, possible pantheist/spinozist. Hmm...that still pragmatic atheism. I always thought you were a theist.