My Daughter's FaceBook Account

Why kids need to be treated as adults is simple - at the teenage level, they are, physically, becoming adults. However, our society has watered things down to the level that you aren't supposed to be considered an "adult" until some arbitrary age number (in most places, 16-18) and even then some things are forbidden until 21+... it's entirely foolish to think that EVERY person matures the same.

They WILL have sexual desires, sometimes as young as 13/14... they WILL feel the call to be "intimate" with someone they like (and at that age, may or may not love, again comes down to maturity). Forbidding them to explore ANY of that is downright foolhardy. They need to experience those feelings - remember, not all that long ago, the average lifespan was, what, 40 or so years? Girls gave birth by the mid-teens, raised children, and generally were "adults" by that time, all as part of the natural process. The human body wasn't really designed to be having kids its entire life... after a certain point, the reproductive cycle greatly slows. Even now, physically speaking, the early to mid twenties are the best childbearing years as the body is best able to recuperate from the stresses of carrying a life inside.

It is, simply put, our SOCIETY that has made sexuality taboo... now, I'm not saying a 16 year old should go out and have kids, but at the same time they are GOING to have those urges - attempting to simple squash said urges is... well, for most it is outright impossible - want a life of celibacy, go join a group of monks.

Hence, my idea is to let the kid know, hey, it is your choice. Be smart, don't do anything you will regret later. My wife and I, before we got married, dated for about a year (yes, only a year). During that time, I would routinely sneak home from my college dorm to sleep with her. Yes, we fooled around, yes, we had fun... but we never had sex, nor did we feel that crushing desire to do so - we showed our intimacy other, safer ways.

:shrug:

To each their own - I know I'm not likely to change your mind on this, but at the same time I KNOW, without a doubt, that the policy of total abstinence is bullshit and does not work. They WILL dabble, they WILL experiment, and they WILL do it behind your back if you forbid them to be close... let them know there are things they can do to experience that intimacy without having sex and chances are, they can keep themselves in line WITHOUT the need to come barging into their room every five minutes.

That is the hope my wife and I have - granted, we do not have children as of yet (we realize we aren't yet ready, financially or otherwise) to have children just yet... another year and that will hopefully change as we will both be out of school and, with a little luck, in careers, not just jobs. However, we both have seen both sides of the childraising spectrum... and I think we are ready to strike that happy medium between being the heavy-handed controller and the laissez faire "not involved" parents... that zone where our kids KNOW they can come to us with anything and not be condemned for it.

 

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This is a great attitude, I think. I am not advocating being your child's best friend, because it's important to always be the adult in the relationship, but be open to talking to them and understanding who they are as people so that as they develop, you can give them the right tools they need to be healthy adults. If you think all kids can be raised the same, or should be treated the same way and you want to control them, you may need a class in sociology or psychology and learn what is reasonable and unreasonable to expect from your children. My two boys are wildly different people in different stages of their development, but they both know that Mom is a place they can come to for a reasonable, non-judgmental conversation and/or advice on how they can go further with their decisions safely and happily. They understand when I explain to them the dangers of their choices, and they listen to my concerns and weigh their decisions. I taught them to be independent and make good judgments for themselves, as well as advocating for themselves. I just have to trust that I did a good job. I'm pretty comfortable with that, and I don't need to snoop on them or check their diary/listen to phone calls or punish my children for anything. I treat them as the adults they are becoming, not the children that they were.

And I know you'll ask, but my boys are considered the most polite and trustworthy children in our neighborhood. They are in good peer groups, and are often the voice of reason when it comes to the decisions of their friends. One isn't as academically proficient as the other, but is stellar at machinery and engineering, and he advocated for himself and he is attending the local college half days (he's a high-school junior) in pursuit of becoming an engine mechanic for automobiles or aircraft. My other son is considering science or engineering, and has a considerable head for math. I am proud of both my children and I trust that they will make good adults. As for sex, my oldest had a steady girlfriend for a year and when she told him she didn't like the feel of condoms and was on the pill, he stood strong and told her no and gave her the statistics of failure and that it was better to be safe. She didn't budge on it, and said none of her other boyfriends used them. He knew then that she wasn't someone he wanted to be with because she didn't make good decisions for herself. They are still friends, but no longer dating.

 

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Who is going to play a game: Let's say your 14 old daugther just told you she is 4 months pregnant, your move is.....?

 

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Yeah I tried, but the little fucker when he was 8, wouldn't want to work!!! So I beat him up good, because that's how I treat an adult....

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No, kids needs to be treated seriously, but not as an adult. But my point was, that at 14-15 if shit happens it is the parent who is going to take care of business not the little idiot, so fuck that privacy...

They want privacy? Move out and get a job, then they can have as much sex as they want...

 

Discussing what her options and possible outcomes are, giving her the information she needs to make a good solid decision and being supportive even if that means driving 5 hours and paying $800 for her choices. If it's past that time or she chooses to keep the child, then we can discuss other options even if that means I will be helping her raise a child. I would encourage adoption, as I am adopted myself and had a pleasent enough experience. When all was said and done, following up and making sure she understands the risks and methods of prevention so that she wouldn't have to go through the trauma of having to make those decisions again until she is ready. Sitting down with some compassion is a far better way of handling a rough situation than flying off the handle, detroying their trust and making them feel small, stupid and a burden.

You can't treat your child as if their lives and choices are an inconvenience to you. What do they learn from that kind of treatment? What do you think they learn by discussion and going through the ramifications themselves?

My oldest son, who is tough on himself, ran away one evening because he was angry at himself for getting two C's. He walked in to some guys open garage, took the guys motorized scooter and drove 40 miles north with no license and crashed the scooter. It was a bad impulsive decision, and he had to pay me back for the reparations, and he did 80 hours of community service and is unable to get his license until he's 18 years old now. I paid for the lawyer, and drove him to community service every time he had to go. We had long discussions on how he could have made better choices, but he definitely had ramifications for his actions, as did I for failling to teach him that sometimes we don't do as well as we'd like in certain subjects and that it was okay to fall a little bit from time to time. That it was okay to be angry at yourself, but I had failed to give him good outlets for that anger.

Part of being a parent, is also accepting your own responsibilities and accepting that you aren't perfect either. I am still paying that lawyer, the court fees and the probation fees and I am reminded to ask my child how they are doing everytime I write the check. I am flawed, if I forget to give my kids the tools they need to make good decisions when I am not there to protect them (ie... someone elses bedroom) then the fault is mine.

 

That was a nice response. The reason I am a bit pissed at most responders in this thread because they kind of imply that kids have all rights and priviledges but responsibilities nada.
The other thing about privacy, they can have it if they can be trusted. But first they have to earn the trust, then they can have their privacy. And generally speaking it is better to keep them on their toes, because then they will be more careful with everything else (well, hopefully). >>>>>If you can't remember to close your FB page and sign out, can you remember to take the pill all the time?<<<<sort of thingy

 

My move is to express how disappointed I was and from there explain what her options are - if the boyfriend were there, I would make it understood that the life inside of her was as much a part of him as it was her and that it was his responsibility to do the right thing (and perhaps put a bit o' the fear of God in him at this point).

However, I'm fairly certain it would never come to that point with my daughter - after all, my goal is to make sure she is intelligent enough (and comfortable enough) to make the right decisions and to take things as far as she wants without resulting in mistakes that could potentially damage her plans for life.

There is a huge difference between an 8 year old and a 14 year old... and again, you attempt to be the "iron fisted dictator", you best expect them to revolt as much as they possibly can...

 

Minor children have no "right" to privacy. Parents have all the right, minor shildren have none. You have the right ---- no, you have the obligation --- to set the rules, determine the boundaries of appropriate behaviour, and take action when those rules and boundaries are not observed.

The idea that children shoud do whatever they "feel" like doing seems to be prevalent among the generation of adults who tdoay think hat they themselves should have everything they want, when they want it. They want a big, expensive car, so they buy it on credit. They want a big, fancy house, so they buy it with a mortgage set up to be what they can afford for the first year or two, and then it balloons to something they clearly will not be able to afford. Then they expect they government to bail them out - to give them the house. That culture of instant gratification simply is passed on to the next generation, so now you have 14 year old babies who think that "playing house" is a good idea.

Strap on a set of cojones, lay down the law and enforce it - but not just in this instance. If you are permissive in every other aspect of your daughter's life, do you think you'll have any luck in being strict in this one area? Hardly.

Rich

 

Rich, well said.

As I mentioned earlier, privacy should come with being trustworthy and mature.

But here is another interesting point. If one trusts his 14 years old with sex, then why not with alcohol or drugs? I know, I know one would say, they are bad for a youngster's health, but I didn't say they have to use it in large doses. So if you let them have sex, you might as well supply the booze and drugs too...

At least it is easier to get ride of an addiction then an unwanted child...

 

I fail to understand what relevance this has to my post. I am most interested in making sure my daughter doesn't end up pregnant or with an STD, and I don't think the strategy that you describe is the most effective one for that purpose.

 

I don't think I described any big strategy. I simply stated spying on your kids is good parenting.
The relevance of the hypothetical scenario was that posters can have really stupid or irresponsible opinions like some had in this thread, but when faced with the consequences and hard choices, those opinions reflect their real value>>>stupidity.

 

The idea that children should never do anything they feel like doing seems to be prevalent among the generation of adults who want to strip away all civil liberties in the name of preventing terrorism.

There, now we've both made an obnoxious straw-man argument that doesn't actually address the point of the people we disagree with!

Uh...the average age of a person facing mortgage foreclosure is 45. Exactly which generation were you talking about? Everyone born after 1960?

 

Fair enough, I thought you were advocating a draconian "I said no, damn it!" approach to preparing children for having sex. Sorry if I miss-characterized your position.

 

Raising your kids so that you don't have to spy on them, sounds like a much less stressful path to me.

Forcing children to obey, and spying on them just teaches them to be better liars. They learn to hide things from you and from others and generally doesn't make for healthy adults.

Raise them to be responsible, aware young people and you won't have to worry about the rest. And you'll have an easier time working through issues when they do make mistakes, but they'll be able to own up to it and there will be no power struggles in your house. The worst thing for a family is the power struggles between it's members. It forces people to take sides, to be on the offensive or defensive all the time. I don't have to play games in my house. I am sure that my children lie to me from time to time, but I know that if something bad happens or they make a bad choice, they will be equipped to accept the responsibility for it and be able to learn from it. Children who are forced to lie because they are afraid of their parents spying or use of force, find it easier to blame the parent for their lying/scheming. My kids don't have that issue, they have to accept that it was their choice to lie.

I dunno. Different parenting tactics, but I choose to give my kids all the tools they need to make it in the big boys world instead of protecting them so much that they are afraid of everyone else and unable to take responsibility for their actions.

Plus, I don't like conflict much. It causes people to become irrational, and I like to make rational decisions.

 

Perhaps, or perhaps the idea that you should be able to be trusting and trustworthy with your children, raising them not to fear you as someone who will punish them when they do wrong but rather will support them as they find out who they are (because trust me, they WILL make mistakes... dont' even try to tell me you didn't as a kid). For me, the biggest influence my parents had over me was a sense of honor and/or respect... it HURT to disappoint them. Then, as I became a bit more rebellious, they tried to control me through fear, punishment, and abuse - at times, I swear my father relished in the feeling of choking me until I passed out. They lost my respect the day they stopped respecting me... and since then there hasn't been anything they could do to "punish" me that I couldn't find a way around, from taking away my computer to trying to physically punish me (wherein I found out I was stronger than the two of them)... suffice it to say, the "punishment" method didn't work a lick.

 

In theory, I agree. In practice, shit happens, and then it is up to the parent to clean up the shit.

Case in point, teenager sex. Let's say they do start at 14. Then there is a party where there is alcohol, and good judgement goes out of the window, and either we are getting pregnant or getting raped or just a common STD. The point is, most 14-15 years old aren't mature enough to have responsible sex, so the longer sexual activity can be pushed out into the future, the better....

I think we can all agree on that. And there is a huge difference between having boys or girls as your children. Different mindset, different consequences....

P.S.: AS a final argument, just have the mental image of your precious 14 year old sucking cocks, then tell me you want her to have sex....

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14 year girl old having sex with a 14 year old boy - not illegal.

14 year old boy bringing beer to a party, getting a 14 year old girl drunk, and then "having sex" (actually, rape since she is not of right mind) with her - illegal, on MANY accounts for MANY reasons.

 

You do realize how ridiculous you sound here, don't you? Equating physical abuse, such as choking, to strong parenthood is just plain stupid, but it is a typical ploy of a certain large portion of parents today, who simply don't want the responsibility of children. Instead, they think they are cranking out "friends". Would you watch a child walk towards a red-hot stove, watch them extend their hand and let them touch the stove so they could "make their own mistake" and "learn from it"? That's what you are advocating here.

 

There are ways of taking responsibility for your children that don't require force at all. Your stove argument is a strawman here though, because no sane parent is going to let a child put themselves in imminent danger to teach them a lesson. What we are talking about here is how do you handle your teenagers maturing sexuality in a safe and productive manner without alienating them or pissing them off. You don't have to take away their privacy by spying on them, and you don't have to beat them into submission either. Strong parenting can be positively attained by taking an active role in your child's life. By being there for them always as a guide (not a friend), and by using appropriate and consistent punishment when they make mistakes so that they know what to expect.

Here's an example of strong parenting;
My children both have cell phones. They are aware that I have GPS location turned on on their phones. I can find out where they are at any given time through my phone or the web. I check it constantly to make sure they get home alright (I am a full time working mother) get to school on time, and if they are late coming home. I don't use it as an interrogation tool, I just want to make sure my children are safe. One day, my oldest son was an hour and a half late and was in an area that he had never been to before. Because he is aware that I have his GPS locator on, he didn't bother lying to me, he told me why he was late and why he was in a location he wasn't supposed to be in. He admitted not calling to say he was going to be late because he didn't want to seem like a little boy. I took away his texting for one month except to my number and his brothers number, and had extra chores for two weeks. It has not happened again because we discussed how it was important for him to let me know and how to avoid that situation in the future. No arguements on the punishment, we both felt it was fair and it definitely had an impact on him.

You don't have to use force to protect your children. There are rational ways to parent without the stress.

 

Since I was that 14 year old, I assure you that it did me zero harm. And as a bonus, I happen to be extremely adept at it today, having had more years to practice. Some people appreciate that, trust me.

You could look at in the positive side. You are investing heavily in your daughters future wedded bliss. Keys to a happy marriage and all that

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