Well your analogy fails. No one is arguing that because a particular God tends to do evil things (allegedly), that this means God does not exist. However one could argue for an immoral, injustice, evil God (allegedly). Explain to me how you arrive at logic? Since you can't explain how things came to be it's logical to assert a God? A deity that is presumably more complex then the Universe itself. Shiva Really? It's wiser to accept Shiva as your god then to reject Shiva as your god? This statement alone says a lot about how you regard logic. Yaveh the God of Abraham. I believed this because of His message through the Messiah Jesus. I know this because he has given me dreams of the future. As much as you will it and dream it, you have never met Jesus. So how exactly did you hear his message? What dreams of the future? How do you know this? Why isn't God measurable in this Universe? No, you have Faith in a particular God most likely because you were predisposed to it. Heck, all human beings are predisposed to it on a certain level. You don't know that your God exists because you can't give me reasons and facts to prove that your God exists. Again, how do you know this? This has become popular among theists. However it's a major assumption on your part. An assumption that is necessary to support your argument. It's no wonder why you take that leap so readily.
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I love how you separate the human experience with classifications like this. You are incorrect. Any human would be devastated depending on the circumstance. However, some humans may feel more comforted that subscribe to a belief system, even though it may be a far cry from reality.
Well my Analogy succeeded in giving the message i wanted to give. My point was you cannot argue the existence of God by evaluating Him to be evil. People can argue that God is evil using the "hey look what God did it was evil" But the atheist in questions Asked: And I Quote: So the OP was asking why believe in God if He does bad things? This is an illogical question that must be knocked upon the head first off. And I did that with my analogy. I believe the teachings of the bible and it clearly states: Psalm 53 1 To the Chief Musician. Set to “Mahalath.” A Contemplation of David. The fool has said in his heart, “There is no God.” They are corrupt, and have done abominable iniquity; There is none who does good. So atheists who believe there is no God are foolish. People who believe in Shiva do not believe there is no God, therefore they are wiser than atheists. Now I think that people who believe God is shiva are misguided but they are far wiser than any atheist. Jesus dwells within me through the Holy Spirit. So yeah I have more then met Him he is with me always. So He is with me, not in a physical touch Him presance but a spiritual presance embracig my conscience. I have received both personal prophetic dreams, also symbolic dreams, and a dream about a future disaster. The personal dreams reveal real time first person future times in my life. They are 2 to 4 second snippets of my personal future that are played out months after I have the dream. They have been about nothing exceptional just mundane snippets of my future life from a first person perspective, They are a perfect rendition both in visual sight, in sound, in smell, in emotion. It is as if i was watching a video replay. Perfect. This I believe was to teach me that God knows all of history to the extent of knowing the moment by moment experience of every human being that has ever lived or will ever live. God knows all history down to the minute detail. Other dream about a future disaster was not a minute detail video of the event, but a dream where I saw a shoreline and in the background sky, it was filled by a turbulent menacing back cloud that filled the horizon. Then as i was looking at the scene a written message in White righting appeared in the clouds stating that “Thera is to be levelled”. I was very excited in the dream because it was the first time God had given me actual words, a sentence. Not knowing what Thera was i forced myself to wake up and ran to my computer to look the word “thera” up on google. I discovered that Thera is a now dormant super volcano situation in the south eastern Mediterranean sea. It was not generally known as thera to the general community. It does not appear on maps as “thera” because while it is known as thera in the vulcanologist community to the general community is it known as the Island of Santorini and that is the way it appears on normal maps. This volcano in the future is going to be levelled this is a prophecy you can now keep for future referance. God is the creator of the universe, therefore God is not a part of this universe. There is a distinct separation between the Creator and the Created. Therefore investigating anything in this measurable universe will only reveal things about the Universe. It can never hope to detect or measure God because God has never been part of this universe. He created it. God exists apart from the Universe and cannot be detected by science therefore any scientific method cannot prove or disprove the existence of God. Yes I do Know that God exists as surely as I know grass is green or water is wet. I was convicted and believed in the will of God when God made His will known to me, God has blessed me with assurances so that I do not need any faith that God exists. Faith for me is trusting in God, not believing in God. As I have said above the very start of the revelation of God in the book of Genesis states that God created the universe. That means God is not a part of the universe. Any measuring of the universe cannot measure God. Simple. All Praise The Ancient Of Days
Not exactly River: if god is trying to wipe Humanity off the planet by a planet wide flood , why believe in this god ? I think you need to use some inference. Probably a poor word choice by river but believing and worshiping are one in the same in this context. In other words, why worship a god that commits genocide, why not worship another god or no gods at all? Oh I see you take a literal approach and believe in the Bible wholeheartedly. Do you also support stoning for breaking the Sabbath(Numbers 15:32-36) or for disobeying your parents(Deut. 21,21) ? Or perhaps you only quote Bible verses when you see fit and when it conforms to your presupposition? Ahhh yes, taking a scientific, logical, reasonable approach to the mysteries of the universe is foolish but accepting one of the many Hindu Gods with a plethora of avatars is virtuous....... Do you understand that you provided no more evidence then the people claiming to raise people from the dead in Nigeria? What do you mean by leveled? So if Thera never gets flattened that means what? you were just hearing voices in your head? You just made your assertion more wordy. Please explain why this is. So God is not apart of his creation? Why? He doesn't want to be? and you know this how? You are being intellectually dishonest. You know Yaveh exists just as much as a Muslim knows Allah exists. Really think about that for a second. Same simple assertion on your part. You have yet to explain why this is. If God is not a part of the Universe then how exactly does he interact with the matter in Universe? Also, your God must have been a part of the Universe at some point, right?
I deal with the questions people place before me. I actually read what people wright. And i give them a reasoned answer answering that Question as worded or revealing the underlying fault in the question that makes it an illegitimate question. River is the one who Started this thread and asked the question. If he wants to change the question, or give another question then fine i will decide to deal with it as it comes if i am still around when or if it does. All Sin is worthy of death. Yes. Because i go by Gods measure not mans measure. Do i support the carrying out of the death penalty on earth? No because Jesus told me not to pass judgement. That He will Judge. So the death penalty still exists the only thing that has changed is when the penalty is carried out. After the final Judgement of God. You clearly show your lack of basic comprehension of my last post. Your talking about mysteries of the UNIVERSE... God is not part of the universe therefore what ever techniques one uses to measure the universe can only measure the universe. How many angles do you need to understand such a basic concept? Are you willfully ignorant or has your understanding been blocked? I wonder. Yeah, I am not here top provide you or anyone with the kind of evidance you seem to demand. The evidance is in the Message of God. All you can do in trying to dismiss my first dream example is try to call me a liar in another way. If i am telling the truth, and i am. Then being shown the future in perfect representation proves that this universe and time is not the only existance. I mean the volcano, Thera is going to be leveled to it's base on the sea bed. The island all the way down to the sea floor is going to be gone. If it does not happen then you can disregard what i have said. But i will add something else here. I believe this will be part of the very last days happening before the return of the Messiah Jesus. I hope for the sakes of the people who read this it happens earlier because if it happens when i feel it will most of the people who see it happening will already have worshipped the beast and recieved the Mark of the Beast. That means when they see this happen they will know they are eternally doomed. So do not wait to seriously investigate the God of Abraham waiting for this event to occure, Now is the time to seek. I cannot explain this more simply. God created the universe therefore God is not part of the universe. And therefore his existance cannot be confirmed or denied by using tools that measure the universe. I am being honest. I know Yaveh exists. No faith needed on that point. God is God. God willed the universe into being. And can influance it by the power of His will. He does not need to be physically in the universe to influance it. He can also influance us. He can also guide our consciences. All Praise The Ancient Of Days
Fair enough, but I think you and I both know what was meant. You are being dishonest and the clearly shows that you and the majority of believers do not take their moral values from the Bible. You know that stoning someone to death because they worked on the Sabbath is inherently evil. You just choose to turn your cheek and cherry pick what you deem as proper. Ignorant....you still have not explained the concept.....You only asserted it. How do you know God is not part of the Universe????? It's like me saying to you that the Flying Spaghetti Monster created the universe but isn't part of the Universe therefore you can't measure the FSM. Wouldn't you want to know how I arrived at that conclusion? It seems as though you do know how to write down a complete thought...either that or you are being intellectually dishonest. . Yes, I certainly do dismiss your non-evidence. Just as you dismiss every other God theory you are familiar with. And disregard the God your pray to as well? Yes, you believe with no evidence just as other fear mongers do. I've been seeking for the better part of my life. Thankfully science saved my soul. Again, you are just repeating your drivel. You don't even make an attempt on how or why this is or how you have come to know this. All you do start and end with an assertion. And the Scientologists says he knows Xenu exists. This is hardly and argument on your part. Another complete and utter assertion. There is no evidence for this however man's perception of God and religiosity certainly does have an influence over us which is and can be devastating. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
I have discovered from bitter experience that jumping to Assumptions about what others mean can lead to a lot of unnecessary angst. If the person means something else then they will make the necessary clarification once they see that their question has not asked what they really wanted to ask. No i am being honest. I am following the guidance of God on this issue, God has taken out of his peoples hands the duty of passing and carrying out of Judgement of the Law. Oh look, you simply cannot understand what i am clearly stating to you. You casting the intellectually dishonest mud on me comes from your frustration at not understanding. Here i will do you a favor. Watch this Utube video, it is all nice and scientific. In it you will see the presenter outside a graphic showing universe time. He cuts slices called moments to show How time is like a series are moment slides. Now as you see this think of the Presenter as God outside the box of universe time, seeing all universe time from His own independent time outside universe time. Maybe the video might act as a step for you to help you grasp what i am getting at. Then again maybe the only way for one to grasp it is for God to grant them understanding. I think you will enjoy the video anyway. The Fabric of the Cosmos. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghHtsy7mta8 I tell you. You shall never get the type of evidence you are looking for to cause you to come to believe God. And if you ever see the kind of evidence you are seeking to confirm God, then woe be to you because you will either be being deceived by the Anti-christ who will be able to perform lying signs and wonders. Or you will be viewing the wrath of God upon earth and you will be caught up in the destruction knowing you only have an eternity in the Lake of Fire to look forward too. You can call that scare mongering if you want. I call it giving warning. All Praise The Ancient Of Days
It's really not that far of a jump. As I said, believing and worshiping are one in the same in this context. Soooo, what are you suggesting....that since God allegedly commands the stoning of people that work on the Sabbath or disobey their parents that you support this? I think you and I both know that stoning someone to death for these ridiculous Bronze Age laws is inhuman and disturbing. If you can't admit that then it's pretty safe to say that you are being dishonest or you need psychiatric evaluation. You didn't explain anything. You made no argument. You just made a meaningless assertion. Maybe you can actually explain it without posting a video? What if I was to make the assertion that God is inside of the Universe and measurable in this universe....wouldn't you want a supporting argument to go along with that statement???? And actually many theists to try to support this assumption. They attempt to build theories around it (albeit not scientific). It seems to me that you are avoiding to exchange in an intellectual conversation. Another thing, if you are saying God is outside of the universe then you are in effect saying that God is not Omnipresent and effectively not Omnipotent. Now watch this, I'm going to explain my statement (a courtesy that you apparently do not feel you should reciprocate). If God is outside of the universe then he can't be present everywhere. And if he can't be present everywhere then he can't be all powerful. Do you follow? The Fabric of the Cosmos. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghHtsy7mta8 I'll watch the vid later, I don't have an hour to burn right now. Why not, perhaps God might be in a good mood one morning and decide to not hide anymore. Your ideology is no different then any other fear mongering religion. I hope you do realize this. Man made religion and ideas of fire and brimstone do not scare me. Perhaps one day you will get over your fear. Live life to the fullest because its the only one you'll get. Good luck.
I need no evaluation nor am i being dishonest. These people where executed not just for the transgression but for disobeying God. When they knew Gods Laws. The greater sin was open disobedience to God, for that they suffered the death penalty. Watch the video then come back. And if you still don't get it then i don't think i can find another angle to explain it to you. Fear of God is the begging of wisdom. So indeed fear of God is an important first step. You don't fear God. You don't make the first step. As for fear mongering you are showing that it is a lie, because you don't fear? do you?... do you? All Praise The Ancient Of Days
How do you know that "they knew Gods Laws"? It's disturbing that you condone stoning life to death. Like I said, when I have an hour to burn I will, but it's very telling that you can't explain your position with a paragraph or two in favor of posting a video...... No, this is your projection only. Fearing something that can't be proven or explained could be the poster-boy for irrationality. No, I do not fear life. I'm great full for it and treat each day as precious as they next. I do not focus on false promises of an afterlife and ancient man made stories of explanations of the Universe. No, Fear mongering is a reality and can be proven throughout history.
@Adstar -- Actually I've found that it can work quite well if you word things properly and the people in question have at least a rudimentary knowledge of me(such as what I believe). Apparently there were others here who did understand that it was sarcasm(specifically people who read the last half of that post), so I don't think that dropping such a fun method of posting(for me) is necessary. The day that no one gets my snarky quips would be a sign that perhaps I should drop the sarcasm, but until then I'll stick to what I know and love. Nope, my eyesight is indeed bovvered. The sarcasm was contained elsewhere. Doesn't matter since the actual state of my eyesight is irrelevant to the point I was making.
Ok. So the logical solution for me is to never take anything you say seriously anymore. So therefore there is no profit in any discussions between us any more. So Be it. All Praise The Ancient Of Days
