Mars Settlement by 2023

I really don't see why we can't work on many things at a time. If it's an expense problem I'm a bit more in favor of trimming the military budget before giving up on space exploration.

 

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I just really don't see what else is there for us in the Solar system. We drove around the Moon, we proved we can do it, otherwise not many practical usage I see for the Moon, much less for the Mars.

I agree, we could cut the military budget (in a perfect world) and use it for something else, filling up potholes should be priority....

 

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You are looking short term, some of us are thinking long term, I think it is in that where you will find the difference of opinion.

 

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- The first thing we need is a new cheaper way to get to orbit I believe this can be done in 2 ways.

1 technology; the space shuttle had a costs 10.416$/kg whilst space x claims that 1.100$/kg is feasable. Whilst more advanced concepts like skylon would bring it down to yust below 1000$/kg.


2 A international decade long project; rockets are expensive because we make to few of them. With todays need of green energy it might be feasable to make a international space based solar plant. Even if it doesn't really make economical sense solar power is heavely subsisdised here on earth. If a compagny is assured it could make 10 launches a year for the next 10 year their rockets will be cheaper. It will be enviromental friendly and reduces the worlds need to fossil fuels, it will be a cool mega project that still serves a function afther it's completion, it could potentially be combinend with a space debris cleaning action and the energy if not beemed to earth it could be used to launch something like a star wasp to other solar systems

 

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/upshot/mars-one-one-way-ticket-red-planet-192011042.html

 

First: Im the worrying kind... The topic is "Mars Settlement by 2023" and dicussing a Moon settlement might be considered off topic. And the question of what use there is for a Mars settlemen by 2023 might also be seen to be irrelevant. Only questions on HOW and WHEN we create a Mars settlement are guaranteed to be on topic. I think something is "off logic" in forum construction! When entries are off topic they are moved out of the thread, perhaps also into another subforum and the chanses are participators are lazy and are staying in the original thread. Why not split the thread instead? I mean thoughts can be more or less off topic cant they? And shouldnt thoughts be evalued and distributed depending on their conceptual distance from the topic?
But possibly its not possible since forum creators didnt do so

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Second: Is a Mars settlement by 2023 really the most economical among possible settlements? That said i hasten to add that economy is not all that should be considered... There is also the scientific value: Mars once were just like Earth and there might not only be life still living deep down in the marsian rocks, we might find traces of extinct civilisations buried in the sand...

 

A lot of this post seems very optimistic to me. Yes, that's possible- But given the probing we've shoved up that planet- I wouldn't get too many hopes up.

Also, just like Earth? That's debatable. It may have had water and some more atmo than it does now...

Economical. I wish!
But I doubt it's economical at this time. Or by 2023.
I'm no economist, however... I'd love to see them prove us doubters wrong.

 

1 First time i hear about skylon.
2 Solar power rules! Together with automatics it is the foundation of a successful colonization of space!
Looking at INTERNATIONAL ventures i strongly suggest ANY alternatives.
3 In the thread "Survival of the human race", colonizing space is considered to be one way of saving humans from extinction...youre invited there.
4 Most "near earth debris" is made of iron. It should be considered a space resource ...How do we make the best use of it?
5 Speaking of resources in space: Glass can be automatically produced and tranported from the Moon.
Ecospheres can be economically made of glass by blowing bubbles in space.
But in the early stages of making space farms its probably cheaper using silicon from earth.

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FYI, there is old threads on Mar's Colonization, one of which:
http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=79345

I'm only mentioning it as some points brought up there are still existent to this day and the current discussion might have missed them.

 

That thread is approximately 200 posts long! It may be a mine of pertinent information. Here is the first post:

I've read of the possibilities of going to Mars. Scientists say it would be the most likely planet for a colony.

The way I see it is like this. We are limited not by a vehicle that could make it there. We can get there and have. The problem is getting something other than a robot there. It takes too much energy and time to send a rocket from earth to an orbit above earth. Some have mentioned to possibility of a space elevator, a stationary platform that could haul loads up into an orbit, where they could later be sent to supply our people on Mars. But we can't do the elevator yet, because we'd have to have a very strong substance in which to make a cable how ever long (maybe 120 miles up?) They speak of a substance called "buckycarbon" but getting large quantities is far off right now.

This leaves us with the "high-g" catapult. The problem with this is that the escape velocity has to be about mach 11. I can't recall where I read that, but that is so high that it just might burn anything up. But we have to give this catapult a try.

The main thing limiting us from space, is our ability to get things up there quickly. We must move away from the idea of a propelled take off approach. We should push engineers to produce the "high g sling" Sort of a one way roller coaster. Imagine, we'd need several nuclear reactors to power it, but if we could shoot things into space, we could establish bases on mars and then eventually the asteroid belt. But yes, robots will have to go to mostly everywhere first.

Does anyone know more about these high g slings? Or catapults as they are sometimes called. I'm really interested in these possibilities as I think that practically they are the only way.

Im a lunatic of sorts...(pun intented) I call this idea "induction" or "magnetic induction". I envisage inductors to be built using balloons.

My idea is to use not only one inductor, lets send matter from one inductor to the next eventually reaching the first factory in space.

 

I'm not seeing any of this as being easy or even possible in the near future. Has anyone ever tried to blow even small glass bubbles in space?

 

Yeah, and I'm not one who would trust a glass ecosphere in that environment...

 

Sometimes I find you unintelligible... Not so this time

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I AM optimist, no doubt. Also I am slightly naive and trusting.
This inevitably colors my writings... But in the case of the probability of life on Mars I lean on reason!

1 We dont KNOW where and HOW life began in our solar system:

2 We KNOW that as soon as Earth was cool enough then Life appeared in the form of cellular life

3 It took several billion years for evolution to produce complex forms of life.

4 WHY SO LONG? It appears easier to get from cellular to complex life than to arrive at cellular life from no life!

5 My conclusion is: Life is older than the planets and may be found all over the solar system... Lets go and see!

 

That's what's known as leaping to conclusions.

 

Oh my, oh my... why not ASK instead of drawing hasty conclusions?
The glass ecospheres only contain genetically modified lower forms of life.
Higher forms of life needs lower forms to feed on but they dont have to share living quarters with them!

 

No!
Its whats known as forming a hypothesis!
Then you must not forget to test it .

 

ok. Test that we came from another planet as microbes.

 

Not yet... but if the bubble needs to be shielded as it grows into proper size, all we need to do is building (by ordinary means) an enclosure big enough to contain it:
A Space factory!

 

Hey! YOU STILL ASSUME LIFES ORIGIN IS ON A PLANET!

Would you PLEASE show me how on earth (pun) you proved THAT!

The test consists in searching for life outside Earth, if we find it and if its of similar construction then I consider the thesis proven.

PS You erroneously assume I repeat ideas i find elsewhere. (Like the pan sperm hypothesis first introduced by the swedish philosopher Svante Arrhenius)

 

I haven't. I assume it.

I never said anything about panspermia.