Continuation----hell in a hand basket

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by ilgwamh, Jan 6, 2000.

  1. SkyeBlue Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    260
    Tiassa -

    Your quote: "Call it what you want, it's all music to me." really rings SUCH a bell with me (pardon the pun!). When I was in my worst phase of my teen-years, my only solace came from writing. One night, I was exuasted - my family was in crisis, I was working 3 jobs and trying to pass high school, which left me about 3 hours of sleep per day, with no time off. I came home from my last job of the night, and had only those 3 hours before I had to be at my morning job, which was followed by schoool, then 2 more jobs, then I'd get another 3 hours to hopefully sleep. I was so angry, and just wrung out trying to deal with all the stress I was under. Drugs and alchohol were adding to the family crisis and when I first got home, my plans were to grab a bottle of Vodka and put myself down for the few hours I had. Instead I picked up a pen, and my notebook. For all three of the hours I had, I wrote madly, as fast as I could. Dawn broke, I realized I had spent all my sleeping time, so I stashed the notebook, showered and began the new day. For weeks I forgot I had even done this. (Days were very much a blur, I can't even tell you how many times I forgot what day of the week it was). About 2 months later things got a little better. Mom's disability checks finally started coming. Dad found a new company that hopefull wouldn't go bankrupt like the last one. I was able to drop 2 of my jobs, and get real sleep. I finally had a little time after school to be a kid again, and hang out with my boyfriend and my friends.

    Later, I came accross that notebook and read those many pages I had written. 3 hours of just dumping my soul out on paper usues up a lot of pages! I had somehow managed to relate everything to music. Evil=lack of music. Good=attunement to music. Reality had the music to back it up, fantasy did not. If you see something that seems to be fantasy, listen with your heart, and your heart will find the music, if it's there. Love is only true if the music is there. Friendship; same deal. I read it, re-read it, and read it a third time. I sat on the ground in shock. I didn't even remember writing it until I began to read it, but once I read it, it all flooded back. I believe that somehow I managed to tap into my subconcious mind, and it clarified a lot to me. I sat on the floor, and thought long and hard about myself, who I was, and what I was doing with my life. I was 17. That afternoon, I proposed to my 16 year old boyfriend. I told my best friend that she was my soul's sister, and that I would ALWAYS be there for her. Today, that boyfriend is my beloved husband. That best friend lives 2 hours away from me, but if I concentrate, I can still tell if she's having a good day or not, we see eachother every chance we get. Some friends I used to have I never spoke to again. Some of THOSE people today aren't even alive anymore. I have to think that I was right, at least in part. That guidance that came straight from my soul has carried me through to today, and every couple of years I pull out that worn-out notebook and re-read my own words.

    I'm sorry, that was really off topic, wasn't it!! But I just got such a flood from your words, Tiassa! The Goddess does speak to you, doesn't she?!

    Thanks for putting up with my rambling, everyone. Blessed be!

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  3. Flash Registered Senior Member

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    771
    ha ha ha ha..... the head is fine, thanks...
    as you can tell I have my shades on...so it helps

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    Ok, so you agree that peace can be found without Jesus/God...

    Now, I ask... what about love? What about
    truth?
     
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  5. truestory Registered Senior Member

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    Flash,

    Glad to hear the shades are helping. Do you wear your sunglasses at night?

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    Yes, I believe that as human beings, without Jesus Christ/God in our lives, we can still have a temporary "sense" of truth, peace and love... However, since Jesus Christ/God is the eternal "truth", we must be "with" Jesus Christ/God, in order to experience the "whole truth," in order to become truly loving and truly peaceful.
     
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  7. Oxygen One Hissy Kitty Registered Senior Member

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    2,478
    If I may confes here, the trouble I felt after leaving the flock was the only thing temporary. I have found my real peace without Jesus and God. The subject is fascinating, especially since I love history and human behavior so, but I felt a burden leave my back when I became an atheist. There were difficulties reconciling it with my family, but they grew to accept it and I can once again have religious discussions with my father. (Oddly enough, these usually happen, by chance, on Sunday mornings. When my atheism became apparent, the talks stopped. They didn't resume again until last Sunday, when I asked him who he loved more, God or me? I think all three of us won because my father picked me and we still discuss God and religion on Sunday mornings without excommunicating each other.)
     
  8. Flash Registered Senior Member

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    771
    TS,
    Of course...things look a lot better that way..

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    Could you do me a favor and explain then the fact that Oxygen found total peace without
    God/Jesus?

    Thank you for your response Oxygen.
     
  9. truestory Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,122
    Flash,

    (Forgive me, Oxygen) But it seems to me that Oxygen has not found true peace in his relationships without Jesus Christ/God... If I am reading his post correctly, it seems that he was only able to reconcile with his father "recently" when his father stated that he chose Oxygen over God. (Why his father even had to make such a choice is beyond me). Such a relationship and such a sense of peace can only be temporary.

    The love, peace and truth of Jesus Christ/God is eternal and true.

    Oxygen,

    If you don't mind my asking, why did you even ask your father such a question? Was it your father who decided to stop communicating with you, originally? If so, I would venture to say that he might have been more into the "ritual" of a church rather than into a relationship with Jesus Christ. Why I say this is because the unconditional love of Jesus Christ would never turn a mere sinner away, especially a child and your comment about "Sunday mornings" rings true for those who are only going through the motions.

    Was this the case? Did your father stop talking with you, did you stop talking with your father or was it a case of mutual pride?



    [This message has been edited by truestory (edited January 10, 2000).]
     
  10. Flash Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    771
    So you are saying that love, peace, and truth
    are only eternal via christ/god? If you are saying this..may I ask how you know this is the only way? Have you explored all other
    avenues? Look, I'm not trying to fight..ok?
    I am being sincere.
     
  11. 666 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    378
    Truestory,

    Mind if I jump in?

    How do you know? People find "inner peace" in thier own way. To be so self-righteous to determine that someone has or has not found it is a very bold statement. Try geting off the high horse.

    ------------------
    My life could have been black and white, but I had to color it.
     
  12. truestory Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,122
    Flash,

    No problem...

    Although I hate to admit it, as I have explained to Lori previously, I am probably the last person that anyone would think would become a Christian. Why? Because I did not have "faith" in anything other than myself.

    Yes, there was a point in my life when I had gone through a "search," looking for answers to the proverbial questions of "Who am/are I/we?" and "Why am/are I/we here?" and "Is there a higher power?" etc...

    During my lifetime, I have read about most, if not all, belief systems and even participated in the "ritual" of various belief systems. Skye will love this... there was even a point when I was a young teenager, working as a cashier in a local grocery store, when I developed a "crush" on an "older man," the 18 year-old assistant manager. One day, when in the library, a book caught my attention which had an advertisement on the cover, something along the lines of, "How to make that special someone love you." I took the book home, read it, and even managed to get a lock of hair from my special someone. He was a little hesitant at first, but eventually, he was willing to let me cut the sample off. I never did go through with that prescribed "ritual," because he ended up asking me out on a date. Yes, he was nice enough, but of course, he would have preferred to have been with an older, more "experienced" woman... I was just a kid...

    Anyway, to make a long story even longer, I never "became" religious and I remained without "faith" during my "search." As strange as it may seem, although I had "heard" about Jesus Christ, contrary to most "Christian" experiences, I did not "find" Jesus Christ and I did not start "believing" in Jesus Christ due to my search or because of a matter of "faith."

    For many years, due to other experiences I have had (which I have mentioned on this board previously), I believed that there was in fact an "afterlife" and I thought that there was "probably" some type of god or gods or some type of higher power or powers, however, I could not be sure - and there came a point in my life when I became apathetic to the existence of God. I thought, "Well, if God exists, then fine. If God does not exist, well, then that's fine with me too."

    At that point, no one and nothing had shown me or proved to me that God did or did not exist or that any one way was the right way. I figured that since I was a "good" person with what I thought were good basic values, what the heck? Whatever life "is," let it be! I figured I'd just enjoy it while I was here... I spent a number of years in this "apathetic" state, and was very happy and peaceful I might add (or so I thought).

    Now, most Christians are brought to Jesus Christ and God through a matter of "faith" and I must say that I admire them and am humbled by their experiences.

    Me, I am more of a "show me" type person. Well, God showed me alright. After more than twenty years of searching and finding nothing, in the midst of a few years in my happy, peaceful "apathetic" state, while sightseeing in an extremely busy New York City, without a care in the world, God came to me. I did not seek God out. God came to me, unsolicited. God called me to spread the Word (whatever that was) and introduced me to the reality of Jesus Christ and the divine gift of salvation.

    I cannot describe to you how powerful this unsolicited experience was... Almost immediately thereafter, God lead me to the Bible. That is how I found, in print, the Word which God spoke of to me... The Word of God who IS Jesus Christ, God in the flesh, which God asked me to spread... That is how I found, in black and white (and red), the historical origin, development and fulfillment of God's divine message of salvation through Jesus Christ, the Son, the only way, through whom, "all" good things will come, which God spoke of to me... That is where I learned of the "uniqueness" of Jesus Christ/God who came to us as a man, whose life, teachings, divinity, service and sacrifice were prophesied, observed and recorded for our benefit by many... and that is how I learned the truth...

    That is why I repented for my sins... That is why I asked God to forgive me, that is why I accepted Jesus Christ into my life as my Saviour and that is how I came to learn true love and peace.

    In a way, I am sad to have to admit that it was not "faith" that brought me to the truth about Jesus Christ. It was God who came to me instead, independently and unsolicited, and told me the truth... That IS how "I" learned of these things, from God.


    [This message has been edited by truestory (edited January 10, 2000).]
     
  13. truestory Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,122
    666,

    No. I don't mind at all if you jump in. However, I'd truly appreciate it if you'd ask your question without adding snide remarks.

    To answer your question... I never did say that I "know"... What I said was that it "seems" to me (it "appears" to me) that Oxygen has not found true peace...

    Why does it "seem" that way to me? Because... although Oxygen might "state" that he has found inner peace, Oxygen also goes on to describe unrest in his relationship with his family caused by what seems to be an inner turmoil... the question being... Who does his father love more: God, or Oxygen?

    I truly hope that this clears matters up for you.

    Peace be with you!



    [This message has been edited by truestory (edited January 10, 2000).]
     
  14. Flash Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    771
    TS,
    Ok...do to experiences which you have had (bad/good?) you came to believe there was some sort of higher power out there..but you could not be sure.
    First, I am curious about the experiences which you have had..if you could lead me to the posts that you are referring to..that would be great. I have read where you described a negative experience...ummm..I think in which you thought it to be an evil spirit or something like that...are there others?
    Second, If there are good experiences are you saying that these were only of God?
    TS, I have had many experiences that are as real as can be...ones which I cannot deny to be anything other than that. Of these experiences there are tons which are positive... and it is through these experiences that I found the Spirit of Truth.
    Now, I know that you have stated in the past that you feel that the Spirit of Truth is the spirit of the antichrist. Although, yes..I have been taught certain things about Jesus which are ANTIchirst thinking... there is more to it than that. The "fruits" of the Spirit of Truth is love, joy, peace....ect... I too did not
    seek this Spirit out...it sought me out.
    So.... what do you make of the experiences that I have had? I guess what I am trying to say...my source has given me the things which you claim your source has.
     
  15. tablariddim forexU2 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,795
    Have you stopped to consider your state of mind at that partircular time? There could have been many subliminal or even real influences to have caused you to perceive your vision/experience as coming from the JudeoChristian God.
    I'm wondering now, as I visualise you, if you always felt as though you had a higher purpose, a feeling of a supernatural destiny, I'm wondering if you actually willed yourself to have the vision!
    Perhaps you have a conforming kind of personality, so that subconciously you really wanted to become a Christian all along.

    Love to you and may your God be

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    [This message has been edited by tablariddim (edited January 10, 2000).]
     
  16. truestory Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,122
    Flash,

    As for my previous experiences, although they were relatively few and far between... I had a number of powerful experiences whereby I was given audible messages concerning impending crisis, including the impending death of others. Had I not been given these messages, and had I not had the sense to recognize their importance and validity and act on them, serious harm to others would not have been averted.

    When I get a chance, I will do a search to point you in the direction of the various posts which describe some of these experiences.

    In the meantime, concerning your question:

    In order for me to be able to better answer your question about the experiences which you have had, it would be helpful if you could describe how this spirit manifests itself to you, to share specifically its anti-Christ teachings and also to share what it is that leads you to believe that its fruits are love, joy, peace, etc...

    Without this information, it is sufficient to say that a spirit which teaches anti-Christ thinking and which causes you to be repulsed at the Word of God (Jesus Christ is the Word of God) is the spirit of the anti-Christ. So far, the only fruit of this spirit which is apparent is that of the anti-Christ.




    [This message has been edited by truestory (edited January 10, 2000).]
     
  17. truestory Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,122
    tab'

    First, please allow me to say once again that it was God who called me, not "the JudeoChristian God" but simply, God.

    With regards to your theory about the possibility that I subconsciously "wanted" to become a Christian, I can tell you that Christianity did not make sense to me prior to God's call. Why do you think I would "want" to be a part of something which made no sense to me?

    All of the supernatural experiences which I have had have been unsolicited and have come out of the blue. I never "willed" any of them and, although none of them made any sense to me at the time, as I explained to Flash, through my ability to recognize their importance and their validity so as to act upon them, serious harm to others has been averted. God's call is no different. There is an impending danger to many souls on this earth. God's message began with, "It is not too late..."

    As far as your theory about me having a conforming type of personality, let me say that I am sure many others wish that were the case!

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    To give you an idea of how those who know me perceive me, here is the caption which my teachers and my peers put under my picture in my high-school yearbook:

    "Above all liberties, give me the liberty to know, to believe, and to utter freely, according to my conscience, not yours."

    The captions were intended to convey the essence of the individual. My nature is as a leader, not a follower.


    [This message has been edited by truestory (edited January 10, 2000).]
     
  18. 666 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    378
    Trusestory,

    Sorry I was a bit uppity that day. I shouldn't have posted that part.

    Relationships with people go up and down. You argue, you laugh, and other stuff like that. You can't take one but not the other. Is it possible that someone "faith" can get in the way of a relationship? To belive so strongly about a given subject that if the other person in the relationship has a differing opinion that the other can not except it or to some degree the other person. I know I have run into this kinda of person.

    ------------------
    My life could have been black and white, but I had to color it.

    [This message has been edited by 666 (edited January 10, 2000).]
     
  19. truestory Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,122
    666,

    Thank you. I truly appreciate that.

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    Of course, we are human, and our relationships with people can go up and down on the exterior. If we are talking about having found true inner peace, however, that is a different story.

    For example... when one is truly with Jesus Christ, although they might spread the Word of God, debate with another person about their beliefs and even fight against the "spirit" of the anti-Christ... A person who is with Jesus Christ will never need to be "accepted" by another individual, because their inner peace does not come from the acceptance of other human beings, their inner peace comes from their own acceptance of the gift of love of Jesus Christ as their Saviour.

    Jesus Christ accepts "everyone," no matter what, and so does the person who is with Jesus Christ. There is, of course, certain "behaviors" that Jesus Christ does not accept. However, with Jesus Christ in one's life, they learn how to separate the behavior from the individual or the sin from the sinner, so to speak.

    Someone who has found true inner peace through Jesus Christ, loves unconditionally, no matter what. Someone who has found true inner peace through Jesus Christ does not "harbor" resentments towards other human beings regardless of the other person's behavior, sins or beliefs.

    As far as someone who is truly with Jesus Christ is concerned, another person's opposing belief will never truly get in the way of their relationship. The other person's behavior might cause some distance at times, but their beliefs will not, and they will still be loved, regardless. Someone who is truly with Jesus Christ has true inner peace and "accepts" everyone with love.
     
  20. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    37,884
    Skye--

    When I was in high school, my mother used to ask me why I surrounded myself with the kids I did ... she saw them as the rabble of the school, each with far too many issues to be a positive influence in my life. I thought a good while about that before I could tell her, "Look at that girl there. When she smiles, she means it."

    It was the best I could do.

    But such things escape words sometimes. So it often is with music, it seems. The direst moments of a waking soul are often its most fruitful; it gives me this goofy glow to know I'm not the only one who sees various art forms as having tangible sway in the human spirit. Er--I have to stop using so many damn words.

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    * * * * *

    Truestory--

    TTFN--ever watch Winnie the Pooh? TTFN--Ta Ta For Now ...

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    --Tiassa


    ------------------
    The Universe is the Practical Joke of the General at the Expense of the Particular .... (Perdurabo; The Book of Lies)
     
  21. Flash Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    771
    TS,
    Well without getting into details...let me put it this way... the things in which the Spirit of Truth has taught me just does not consist of antichrist teaching. The Spirit has also taught me the importance of and how to let go of the things which I have learned
    in the past. This is to curve the influence
    of what outside sources may have had on my life. Not that some of the things which I have learned has been negative..but, so I will know in my heart that which is pure..then grow on top of that...this is what also helps to distinguish the valuable things from the crap. Truth is wayyyy important..and as it is learned one can advance spiritually. This is just an example of the things which I have been taught.
    Also, I want to add that the when the Spirit of Truth is speaking to me...there is such peace, love, and joy...it's soooo POWERFUL..
    I feel it all through me. Now, with that in mind, there is no way it could be an evil spirit...the very thought of that makes me laugh and laugh...
    Hope this better helps you to answer my question in the previous post...
     
  22. SkyeBlue Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    260
    Tiassa -

    I know what you mean!

    (There we go, short and sweet

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    )
     
  23. truestory Registered Senior Member

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    1,122
    Flash,

    If the spirit which guides you will not allow you to share these things, then I understand.

    However, your response did not help, it only confirmed what is already apparent... Sorry.
     

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