Here's a new game I started: Type any name into the linked PUBLIC INFORMATION data base (Federal Employees, 2011) and see what the top pay is for a random Federal Employee on page one of the gods only know how many pages depending on the name (NOTE: this is all public information - for now). Here I tried a few to start us off: SMITH SMITH, CHARLES DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE CIVIL RIGHTS MISCELLANEOUS ADMINISTRATION AND PROGRAM District of Columbia District of Columbia WASHINGTON GS 14 Base Pay: $136,771 Bonus: $2,500 KAREY MCALHANY, B KAREY DEPARTMENT OF ENERGY DEPARTMENT OF ENERGY GENERAL ENGINEERING South Carolina Aiken County AIKEN NN 04 Base Pay: $142,495 Bonus: $0 BRYAN KNOWLES, BRYAN M DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE DEPARTMENTAL ADMINISTRATION HUMAN RESOURCES MANAGEMENT District of Columbia District of Columbia WASHINGTON GS 14 Base Pay: $105,211 Bonus: $0 Yup, it's tough being a Public Servant that's for sure. Thank the Gods they get full medical, pension, benefits, job security, etc... you know, serving us peons. I wonder how many peons it takes to tax enough to pay for these three 'Public Servants'. Thank the gods they're there. I mean, if we didn't have Smith over there working for the Dept of Agriculture... hell, how'd we get all the High Fructose Corn Syrup made.... and gee oh gee, Smith there works in the Division of "Civil Rights"....well, thank the F*cking Gods we have a Civil Rights department within the Department of Agriculture. Us little PEONS just too stupid to know our Civil Rights... thank the Gods we got us Charles there looking out for us. And only on 6 figures, isn't he magnanimous. And a bonus of $2500 too. Probably more than most American see in 5 years of bonuses - IF EVER. No No No, you're not Tax Cattle, you're FREE Citizens and you live in the most Wealthy Prosperous Country on Earth! Just don't try NOT paying your Income Tax (well, lets call a spade a spade - you're LABOR Tax, you're 'Right to Work' Tax) Smith there might send the Po Po over to your "Free" house and drag you kicking and screaming off to Prison, or take your house, car, or whatever else. Yeah, but you're 'Freemen', not Tax Cattle, but free.... No, you're no man's slave, you're "Free"; lucky you got the Central Government keeping your safe from Apple Inc and Ford .... Gods only know what might happy, nope, you are FREEEEE ... EEE.... and you just keep on thinking that..... Let your betters in Washington worry about all those other little things for you. I mean, you're too dumb to buy milk or take a shit in your own house, best let the Federal Government in Washington worry about those things for you, and write some regulations to keep your crapper safe. Gods only know how god damn stupid you are to buy your own toilet or milk. Oh, and thank the Gods they have Public Unions. I mean *gasp* they're barely getting by on what 6 figures. Moo Moo Mooey Gooey Moo I'll take the FREE MARKET, LAW and PROPERTY RIGHTS any god damn day of the week Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
The average American makes around $43,000 a year. The average Federal "Public Servant" is on $83,000+ ... not to mention they have excellent job security, excellent pensions, excellent vacation time, time off for children, and every other perk in the book. I find it interesting the common Tax-Cattle doesn't really care. They just look at you with the moo-eyed blank stare and moo something about being a troll as they go back to their milking machine, hook themselves in, and stuff their head into the GMO trough they feed out of while watching Dancing with the Douches. It's no wonder why Federal Employees (and I know quite a few - most on 6 figures) think the common Citizen is pretty much too stupid to look after themselves. Don't worry brucep I'm sure your Federal Servants will find some WMD somewhere to send you or your children off to die for.
Wow... and not a one of them you found will be impacted by raising taxes on over 250K earners. Heres a better one for you. And its a non-union position in a right to work state. http://php.app.com/fed_employees11/details.php?recordID=1255101 Heres a Fed workers graphic. http://www.thefactfile.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/fedwork2.jpg Looks to me like Dept of Defense could use some trimming. http://www.thefactfile.com/2012/01/...-rapid-growth-for-some-stagnation-for-others/
i see your still using numbers dishonestly again. no matter how hard you lie and spin public servants make less than the private sector which you know which is why your using the national median income which includes all the part time retail people making 12k a year. you know if you were honest and compared like job to like job you disprove your bullshit claim.
Your "random" employees happen to be in the top tier of competitive employment in the federal government. You picked two GS-14s and one engineer who's the equivalent of a GS-14 or GS-15. In other words, they're not rank-and-file (i.e. entry or mid-levels) federal employees, they're managers. Honestly, $105K for a manager in a city like D.C. and you think that's unreasonable?
"Salary commensurate with experience." For the General Schedule workers: The current top base pay is GS-15, at $129,517. This is equivalent to a Colonel (or Navy Captain). The bottom pay grade, GS-1, is $17,803. This is equivalent to a "buck private" or ensign (E-1). The base pay is adjusted for the high cost of living in some 31 designated metropolitan areas, the highest being SFO with an adjustment of 35.15%, and an adjustment of %14.16 for positions outside of those 31 areas. Senior Executive Schedule: $117,787-$177000. This covers Generals/Admirals and executives in top positions of federal agencies. Senior Level Science and Professional positions: $117,787-$153,200. This covers PhDs with 30 yrs experience. Administrative Law Judges: $102,400-$153,200. I'm neither a General nor a judge, but if I were--and only earning, say, $90k--I might want to look into a federal job.
Without a price mechanism it's impossible to know what any of these 'services' are worth. I maintain most aren't worth anything! No one would pay for 99% of the so-called "Service" the US Government doles out! Hell, the only time I deal with the government is when I'm forced to - usually tax or document related. I've never had Apple ask me for my birth certificate! I've never had Ford tell me I have to pay for some service I didn't ask for and don't want. The PhD's I know that pull in $150K all work at start-ups and are doing research at the cutting edge of biotech. It's a LOT of work and job security is non-existent. I can promise you, a PhD in "Civil Rights" is NEVER going to bring in $150K in the free-market - let alone $300,000 and life time benefits and health and job security you couldn't DREAM of getting in the private sector. You'd either have to work directly for Satan Himself in Washington DC or be a Professor at a Government run University where tuition is edging upwards to $20K a year (which I find a travesty). I'll take my chances with Apple and Ford.
that's false we compare them to the private sector of like jobs and they make less. of course you do anything that curbs your prescious economic power is worthless to you. thats untrue. that's because you have the mentallity of a child. their are reasons for that not that you'd understand them because they are anthama to your belief system. i know phd that make much more than that that because it research their always another theory. that's because a Phd in civil rights is literally something you made up and pulled out of your ass to try and make your pro power ideology seem less stupid. so your ok with a company selling something that's basicly a liscencing fee and their is really no need nor space to go into the sheanigans car companies use.
One reason for a civil rights division within the department of agriculture is the long and ongoing practice in America of racial oppression and discrimination by capitalist agricultural concerns overseen by the DoA, as well as the DoA itself. Black and red and yellow and brown people have been, and in some cases still are, deprived of the protection of the law, access to markets for their labor and product, and the ordinary property rights enjoyed by their white neighbors, by agribusiness concerns - in the past the DoA has often abetted this, or failed to oppose it, while carrying out its oversight and other governmental duties. I have had an Apple dealer ask me for my Social Security number, and Ford of course is famous for coercing its customers into paying for services they didn’t ask for and don’t want – from adding expensive bogus oil and gas treatment products during routine service, to charging large sums for turning off meaningless “check engine” lights, to withholding or overcharging necessary diagnostic codes and other info from independent garages attempting to repair their cars. Ford also overpaid their executives – not as badly as GM, but badly enough to make government service an option for those less concerned with money in the first place.
I'm glad you brought this up. It was the back story to the Republican character assassination of another black woman (before Susan Rice). I'm sure you know this story, but I bring it up to remind the cynics. Her name was Shirley Sherrod. Another historic case of the direct manipulation of federal civil rights attorneys, to deflect them from cases such as this, and to apply them to tackle political issues of the Bush administration, was the other story I know you remember well. Again, for the cynics: Alberto Gonzalez. Ford was also implicated in Argentina's "dirty war". As for their salaries: there are at most approx 2000 hrs in a work year. Assuming an average base rate of $200/hr, the average attorney stands to earn $400k per annum. The federal civil rights attorney may earn $200k (I'm assuming a median executive pay rate and adjustments). Now the issue surrounds the problem of attracting effective attorneys for half the pay they might earn in the private sector.
Where do you get an average pay for an attorney as $400k? Here's the real data: Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! http://www.abajournal.com/magazine/article/what_americas_lawyers_earn/Even in the most expensive parts of the country, the average is not even half that! So if your federal civil rights attorney is bringing in $200k, his pay is above average for even the most expensive areas in the nation and 4- 5 times that of the average attorney is the least expensive areas.
Ooh - you're possibly way off base with your reasoning here. When I started out in my career (not as an attorney, but the principle is the same), straight out of university, I was being charged out by the firm I worked for at £90 an hour. This covered my salary, the firm's overheads, all the "free" work we also did during the year. I was actually earning under £8 an hour. My point is that the "base rate" or the rate that someone charges is NOT the same as the amount they take home as salary. Even if the person is self-employed and can charge a good whack there are usually considerable overheads to consider such as office costs, as well as the issue of having no company pension scheme, medical benefits etc. If they're charging $200 per hour then they're almost certainly employing a PA / secretary to help them etc. I'm not saying $200 ph is not a good rate... but one needs to be careful when looking at things like chargeable rates and understand how that might compare to their actual salary/earnings.
Startraveler nailed it in post #7, although after skimming the thread it doesn't appear that anyone was paying attention to him. The GS-14 employees that the OP complains about are mostly mid-level managers. Their salary is not very high compared to what their private-sector equivalents are making.
There are plenty of managers/executives in the private sector that makes more than that without any PhD at all. Most federal employees who make that much are mid or upper level managers. A newly-hired PhD will usually start as a GS-11, making around $60-70k, which is not great for a PhD in the private sector. Do you have any statistical data that looks at averages for people in the government vs private sector who have the same job, education, and experience? I suspect that if you find such data, there won't be much difference.
I would bet on there being a serious difference, with the private sector getting paid significantly more at the upper levels (GS9 and above) that so outrage our local wingnuts. That guess is based on cursory review of the pay scale of government jobs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Schedule_(US_civil_service_pay_scale) ) and the apparent frequency with which executive level government jobs have been preliminary, even used as stepping stones, to more lucrative private sector jobs, rather than the reverse, in the biographies of many successful people.
