China island dispute and goverment transition

Discussion in 'World Events' started by ElectricFetus, Sep 13, 2012.

  1. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

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    Jesus the "Rape of Naking" was just one incident in a genocidal campaign by the Japanese that killed 20-30 million people! The Jews don't remember Auswitch only, they remember the Holocaust! Likewise the Chinese don't remember Naking only, they remember the WHOLE war and occupation by japan.
     
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  3. Billy T Use Sugar Cane Alcohol car Fuel Valued Senior Member

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    Yes, of course, Chinese hatred of Japanese is based on more than just the "Rape of Naking" (~ 300,000 civilians murdered in one month with many women raped first). As Wiki posts these photos, (see "Nanking Massacre") I will too. Brutal ugly truth needs exposure to understand the Chinese POV.

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    No sincere apology by Japan yet !!! HOWEVER,
    annually, still, high Japanese officials (and thousands of Japanese) visit the shrines honoring the relatively few Japanese who died occupying China.

    To see an obviously proud Japanese soldier posing for a photograph with the head of the civilian he has just killed in his left hand and his sword in his right hand, go here: http://factsanddetails.com/china.php?itemid=59 and read the text, telling that Japan saw conquest of East Asia´s wealth as their solution to the problems of the depression. (Japan invaded Manchuria in 1931.)

    The Chinese hatred of the Japanese is the result of SEVERAL brutal invasions, the first of which is the ONLY basis of any Japanese claim (spoils of war) to the disputed islands which China (mainly nearby Taiwan) had explored and fished around many centuries earlier and clearly owned, until defeated by the Japanese, and the Chinese nation was forced to grant them to Japan as part of the peace agreement ending the 1895 war with Japan.
    * That "returned" is not true. The US granted "Administrative Authority" not sovereignty to Japan. AFAIK US is still neutral on sovereignty question.

    More quite recent actions from same CNN source:

    " Several Japanese Coast Guard ships fired water cannon and shouted warnings at a boat carrying Taiwanese activists who were attempting to land on islands disputed by Taiwan, Japan and China, a spokesman said. Through loud speakers, the Japanese Coast guard urged the activists and four Taiwanese Coast Guard vessels accompanying them, to retreat from waters around the islands, which are known as the Senkakus in Japan, and Diaoyu in China.

    The deterrent worked and the Taiwanese ships left the area, the Japanese Coast Guard said. According to state news agencies in Taiwan and China, the confrontation occurred about 28 nautical miles from the islands in the East China Sea. ... Several activists were aboard the main protest boat, Chinese news agency Xinhua said, adding that it was the third time since June 2008 that the ship had been involved in a confrontation with the Japanese Coast Guard.

    Once on the islands, the activists planned conduct ceremonies relating to Matsu, the "Goddess of the Sea" on the islands, according to the Li Yiqiang, secretary general of World Association for Protecting the Diaoyutais. The activists included Hsieh Mang-lin, chairman of the Chinese Association for Protecting the Diaoyutais. He told Taiwan's Central News Agency (CNA) that they planned to erect a statue of Matsu on the island to help protect Taiwanese fisherman operating in the area.

    Protests flared across China in September, soon after Japan announced it had bought the islands from private Japanese owners.* The deal was struck in part to prevent the islands being bought by Tokyo governor Shintaro Ishihara who had called for donations for a public fund to buy them.

    China was outraged, as were protesters who marched through several Chinese cities calling for boycotts of Japanese products and urging the government to give the islands back. In December, the dispute escalated when Japan scrambled fighter jets after a Chinese plane was seen overhead. A number of Chinese ships have also entered contested waters despite warnings from the Japanese Coast Guard. ..."

    * I find it interesting and would like to know how "spoils of war" became "owned" by a few very rich Japanese instead of the nation of Japan.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 26, 2013
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  5. Workaholic Registered Senior Member

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    You won't find those images at Yasukuni Shrine in Japan, instead you will find something like below:

    http://www.mutantfrog.com/2005/04/10/yasukuni-photographs-and-najing-massacre-explanation/

    For an in-depth read on the Shrine, refer to here:
    http://www.asiaruminations.com/2010/08/20/legacies-of-war-yasukuni-shrine/#more-1250

    Incidentally, here is an image of Merkel and Netanyahu at the Berlin Holocaust museum:

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/israel-mfa/4289636421/

    The image they are viewing probably marks the sites of the concentration camps? This is just one of hundreds of Holocaust museums worldwide (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Holocaust_memorials_and_museums#Germany)
     
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  7. Billy T Use Sugar Cane Alcohol car Fuel Valued Senior Member

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    Getting hotter:
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 5, 2013
  8. Billy T Use Sugar Cane Alcohol car Fuel Valued Senior Member

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    Getting worse? Just a question of when, not if?
     
  9. Billy T Use Sugar Cane Alcohol car Fuel Valued Senior Member

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    China does not think all Japanese will stay on their main land for the new year, so neither can they this time.
     
  10. Billy T Use Sugar Cane Alcohol car Fuel Valued Senior Member

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    Four days earlier:
     
  11. Billy T Use Sugar Cane Alcohol car Fuel Valued Senior Member

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    S. Korea is only winner so far - Chinese now buy more from Korea and less from Japan.
     
  12. Billy T Use Sugar Cane Alcohol car Fuel Valued Senior Member

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    ...
     
  13. Billy T Use Sugar Cane Alcohol car Fuel Valued Senior Member

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    Here is data on part of Japan´s self inflected economic damage:
    IMHO Japan should both appoligize for the invasion of China and forcing defeated China to sign a "peace treaty" giving the now disputed islands to it as "spoils of war." But as they say: "Pride goes before the fall."
     
  14. dragon0788 Registered Member

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    11
    These country always war each other.
     
  15. OriginalBiggles OriginalBiggles, Prime Registered Senior Member

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    quadraphonic #6 writes:Also, Mao and the Communists spent the war hiding under their blankets in the hinterlands while the Nationalists fought the Japanese (and then turned on the weakened Nationalists after the war), and so have spent the last 70 years desparately trying to revise the record to recast themselves as anti-Japanese defenders of Chinese honor. This kind of stilted jingoism is a requirement for them, as the actual historical record does not flatter them or bolster their legitimacy as rulers.

    I think you would profit from reading some of the reports from journalists who actually spent months with the Communists in combat zones. I recommend Edgar Snow for a start. Some here have railed against Japan for denying history. Chiang kai-Shek and his Kuomintang Nationalist Army spent a lot of his time slaughtering his fellow countrymen, communists, in China's south eastern provinces, especially Mao's home province of Hunan. In these provinces he laid waste to vast swathes of farmland destroying thousands upon thousands of farms, stealing all the animals and the crops. His "White Terror" vied with the Japanese for brutality, cruelty, rapine and massacre. Chiang practised the same behaviour on the native population when he fled to Taiwan.

    Chiang's armies were far from exhausted when Japan surrendered. He had huge supplies brought to him constantly by road and by air when he retreated to Chungking. Communist armies in the north forced the IJA troops to retreat into the towns.The peasant land owners and tenants were protected by the communists using guerilla tactics and seizing caches of arms when possible. They had always been chronically short of weapons but they controlled the entire north east rural regions of China.

    You misplace charges of legitimacy and jingoism by repeating the USA's version. You've been raised to cast all communists as the baddies no matter what they say or do, because if they happen to be right then the USA must be wrong!

    I'm not a communist but I am aware enough to not believe that international politics can be seen only as black and white. In matters of modern history I'll never accept only one version of events. I'll never be so jingoistic as to "know" that my country never made a glaring mistake and should have known better.
     
  16. Billy T Use Sugar Cane Alcohol car Fuel Valued Senior Member

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    I believe that to be mainly true; but what astounds me most is most Americans seem to believe, or at least tacitly assumed, that Taiwan was un-occupied. In fact it had a relatively good government and some of the best universities in Asia. Chain killed most of the university professors, labor leaders and all others who might resist his take over of the Island. The US strongly supported Chiang as he was definitely "anti-communist" and that was all that was important to the US then. For years Chiang had strong support from Congress, via the "China Lobby." Part of Taiwan's economic strength today is due to the good universities it had and the wide spread high value placed on education. Chiang could not destroy that.

    The US did the same thing in all of South America - helped to install anti communist dictators, starting with the CIA helping kill the democratically elected president of Chile as he was openly a communist.* More than 50,000 were killed, quite a few by being drugged in jail, loaded into the US supplied helicopters and dropped into the sea as then no bodies needed to be disposed of. The dictators did not like each other and would not even tell one another when one "terrorist" wanting return to democracy slipped across their border to safety. So the CIA set up "operation condor" to keep tabs on the trouble makers wanting return to democracy. Females trouble makers were repeatedly raped in jail and allowed to live until babies were born. These babies were taken and given to childless supporters of the dictatorships. Now several hundred middle aged people have learned that they are unrelated to their "parents" via blood testing done for other reasons. Many close relatives of the "disappeared" have given DNA samples to a DNA bank to help these people learn who their real parents were - fighters for freedom against the US installed, anti-communist dictators.

    * BTW, Chile's President Alendia was killed on a 9/11 and most in south America, still associate "9/11" with the US's destruction of democracy and the ultimate killing of 10 times more than died in the US's "9/11." There is a good reason for the "Yankee go home" attitude still widely adopted in South America. Don't misunderstand - the democracy that existed in South America was corrupt and sort of an economic dictatorship of the rich, but at least it was evolving as voting was allowed.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 26, 2013
  17. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    oil potential?
     
  18. Billy T Use Sugar Cane Alcohol car Fuel Valued Senior Member

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    The carrier had successfully carried out 37 days of tests and training exercises in the South China Sea ... "During the mission, the Liaoning conducted more than 100 drills and training exercises. The drills tested the structure's stress resistance, sailing speeds in deep water, navigational capabilities and weapons and equipment reliability," The carrier completed its first comprehensive combat training during the mission and performed a formation drill with other Chinese ships and submarines in the battle group, another first for the Chinese navy, the statement said.

    Two missile destroyers, the Shenyang and Shijiazhuang, and two missile frigates, the Yantai and Weifang, participated in the mission. They escorted the carrier from Qingdao to Sanya. The use of four ships led military observers to speculate that the navy's carrier battle group has taken shape with the Liaoning as its core.
     
  19. Yazata Valued Senior Member

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    5,902
    I don't think that these island disputes (there are several of them) have much to do with Japanese war crimes or with Chinese government transitions. They are expressions of Chinese nationalism, as China starts to perceive itself as a superpower and tries to flex its muscles.

    The goal seems to be to exercise Chinese claims to hegemony and control over all of the waters to the west of what China calls the 'first island chain', running from mainland Japan through the Ryukyus, Taiwan, the Philippines and Borneo. The recent announcement of a Chinese ADIZ above the islands being disputed with Japan and including the air routes between Japan (and South Korea) and Taiwan, illustrates this. China claims soverignty over any land in these waters and then tells other countries that they have to ask Chinese permission for their aircraft to traverse its skies.

    Similar moves are being made in the south, in the South China sea, where all the small islets and sand-bars have been declared Chinese territory and where Chinese patrol boats try to run off fishermen from countries whose territory is much closer to the reefs than is China itself.

    The goal is to make certain that other countries acknowledge that these are all Chinese waters and that other countries may only only enter them with Chinese permission.

    Throughout history China has typically thought of itself as the "middle kingdom", surrounded by a ring of weaker client states, dependent on China. Now that China is once again growing in power, they want to exorcise the humiliations of the last few centuries and think that their new status is the occasion for the reassertion of that ancient China-centric vision.

    And one of the major speed-bumps in the way of its implementation is the fact that Japan is a proud and nationalistic country in its own right, a country that doesn't for a moment picture itself as a subservient client, bending a knee to Beijing.

    My guess is that if the Chinese keep pushing, Japan will probably start thinking about becoming a nuclear power, something that Tokyo can do in short order.

    The biggest flashpoint might not be Japan though, it's probably Taiwan. China periodically announces that Taiwan must submit to Beijing's rule, on Beijing's terms, and that patience is quickly running out. It's more than a hollow threat, since much of China's recent military expansion seems expressly designed for a war to conquer Taiwan and to prevent the United States military from interfering. That's a war that I think is likely coming in the next few decades and one that has the very real danger of going nuclear.
     
  20. Billy T Use Sugar Cane Alcohol car Fuel Valued Senior Member

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    China is "conquering Taiwan" the same way it is Wining WWIII with the US - economically. Taiwan wants, and will get, duty free access to the 1.3 billion mainland Chinese with their double digit annual increase in purchasing power.
    Above 5 September 2103 article by Kent Wang, advisory commissioner at the Overseas Chinese Affairs Council, Republic of China (Taiwan).
    * Like with Hong Kong, and a few others, the solution is the "One China - Two systems."
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 1, 2014
  21. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    I think you nailed it.
     
  22. Billy T Use Sugar Cane Alcohol car Fuel Valued Senior Member

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    Accident still waiting to happen:
     
  23. Billy T Use Sugar Cane Alcohol car Fuel Valued Senior Member

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    "Accident" that did happen:
     

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