Any atheists here who were once believers?

Discussion in 'Religion' started by wegs, Sep 18, 2013.

  1. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    wynn,

    Erm, no. Belief in God comes about because one has no knowledge (what to speak of supreme knowledge). Didn't talk about this earlier?

    I'll admit to this.

    Aw! Giving up so easily? Or am I just getting in the way of your discussion with Sarkus?

    To be continued.......

    jan.
     
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  3. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    JamesR, this whole excersise is a hypothetical scenario. If atheism was true, then nature would be all in all, and even if that does not, in reality, explain the atheism scenario, let's just go with it, so we can get right into the heart of the psychology of those for whom atheism is true But it is true for some.

    If only nature exists, then everything is an expression, or a part of nature. Right?
    If within this reality, God is believed in, then belief in God is also part of nature. Right?

    jan.
     
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  5. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    James R,

    Are humans purely natural? If yes then morality is an aspect of nature. But it isn't.
    Why are there different levels of morality. Why do some humans have no morals, and some do?

    No it's not.

    Such a person would also be feared, and would be successful in finding a mate to reproduce.

    Why do we?
    It doesn't need to be wrong to survive.

    I didn't say that. You should read what I write rather than assume.

    Vaguely.
    They refer to the gods (if my memory serves)?

    jan.
     
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  7. wynn ˙ Valued Senior Member

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    When in Pamplona ...
     
  8. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

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    Yes Jan, the BELIEF of God is part of nature as is the BELIEF of anything else one can conjure from their physical brains, which is where BELIEFS reside, in the physical brain, hence God exists only within the physical brain. God has not been shown to exist in nature.

    Therefore, God is actually YOU, your ego, your self and nothing more.

    Ever wonder why even Christians don't agree on Christianity? That is because their egos don't agree with each other.
     
  9. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    ~insight into God's identity?

    That's kinda' a red flag. Care to elaborate?
     
  10. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    Scriptures?

    jan.
     
  11. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    Oh, I wasn't expecting people to take scriptures literally.

    Well, very few.
     
  12. wynn ˙ Valued Senior Member

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    Okay, I'll play:

    How do you decide what to count as scriptures and what not?

    Why Srila Prabhupada's version of the Bhagavad-gita, why not Srila BV Narayana Maharaja's, or Gandhi's, or Srila Sridhar's Maharaja's, or Swami BV Tripuari's or yet some other version?
     
  13. wegs Matter and Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    Exactly.

    And often, people ''prune'' the Bible down to whatever suits their particular worldview. So, is it a book that holds objective truths or not? I don't believe it is, that's not to say I can tell another person to follow that same belief.

    Which to your point Jan...you asked me and you have asked others, do we believe God exists as we are reading these posts? If I were to say yes, does that mean he does? If I say no, does that mean he does not?

    Who decides? You or me, Jan? You or someone who is Buddhist? You or someone who is Jewish? You or someone who follows Islam? Can everyone have a completely different view of who God is, and all still be 'right?' If so, then it proves (actually serves as evidence) that if one believes in God's existence, how can that be based on objective truths? For those who are religious and/or spiritual, who knows for certain, if God is who they believe he is or not. If he can be all things to all people, then he can be nothing at all to an atheist.

    I'm not so sure I've actually chosen the path I'm on, as much as I've stumbled upon it, simply by following the fallacies of Christianity. (and realizing that in order to follow one school of thought as it relates to God, I'd have to denounce either to myself or to others, that other religions are 'wrong.')
     
  14. Balerion Banned Banned

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    What do you mean it isn't?

    Why do some humans have sight while others don't?

    Compelling counter-argument. Care to elaborate on why it's wrong to say that atheists have no sense of right and wrong?
     
  15. wegs Matter and Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    I'm interested in hearing the answer to this, as well. Good question.

    Since we're on the subject....(how does an atheist differentiate between right and wrong?)

    http://asktheatheist.com/?p=776
     
  16. Sarkus Hippomonstrosesquippedalo phobe Valued Senior Member

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    But he must accept, then, one of the following (I am not aware of any other logical conclusions)...
    (1) that either God is not as he imagines - in which case he must be aware that God is not as he claims he imagines and thus he is lying as to what his true concept of God actually is (even if his concept is along the lines of "that which imparts a feeling") and that he disagrees that he believes in his concept merely to disagree, and if not lying then he is ignorant of what he is implying.
    or (2) he has no real comprehension of God - in which case he is/was agnostic, yet chooses to believe in God despite that lack of knowledge.

    There may be other possibilities, and perhaps you can suggest some?
     
  17. wynn ˙ Valued Senior Member

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    Who knows the secrets of the believer's heart ...
     
  18. Sarkus Hippomonstrosesquippedalo phobe Valued Senior Member

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    God exists for me the same as anything else I have no knowledge of: I can not say God does or does not exist, but my actions are not predicated on a belief in God.
     
  19. geeser Atheism:is non-prophet making Valued Senior Member

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    If it harms neither you nor anybody else then it must be right, if it does the opposite then it has to be wrong.

    Regarding morality:

    1. Empathy and Consideration of Effect: Humans have the ability to comprehend another's experience, feelings, etc. Using this ability one can consider whether one's actions will be "correct" or "good" by the person(s) affected by such action. Such consideration of effect prior to action is part of any rational direction of one's actions.

    2. Utilitarianism: "All action should be directed toward achieving the greatest happiness for the greatest number of people."

    3. Naturalistic: "…any animal whatever, endowed with well-marked social instincts, the parental and filial affections being here included, would inevitably acquire a moral sense or conscience, as soon as its intellectual powers had become as well, or nearly as well developed, as in man. . . . " – Charles Darwin.

    4. Social Contract: We agree to standards of conduct, the "rules of society" in order to gain the advantages of society. Which is similar to Utilitarianism.

    5. Chaos Theory and Consideration of Effect: I find that the implications of Chaos theory as it applies to morality are profound. Consider what is commonly known as "The Butterfly Effect", that is the fact that in a Complex Dynamic System small changes in input can cause profound changes. The basic implication is that any action taken may have drastic consequences. Responsibility, even if only to oneself, therefore demand that consideration as to the impact of one's actions be given.

    I think that Einstein stated it fairly well, "A man's ethical behaviour should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death."
     
  20. Robittybob1 Banned Banned

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    Well I hope you are not blind.
    Where does the sense of right or wrong come from, and why do you apply it? If there was no God as the atheist religion preaches I would have become the most Evil Beast one would have ever known. Could the Devil, Satan, himself never convert to become a follower of God?
     
  21. geeser Atheism:is non-prophet making Valued Senior Member

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    Double post sorry
     
  22. Robittybob1 Banned Banned

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    I haven't followed the story fully but the security around the White House shot that lady recently. "To shoot someone dead" sounds like harm, but did they do right or wrong?
    it is not as simple as you suggest.
     
  23. wegs Matter and Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    I agree with him; great points to consider, for everyone no matter what belief system one holds as 'truth.' We all can find common ground here.

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    Why do you believe this? You feel that the only reason you live a moral life, is because you fear God?

    Final question: You don't believe that the forming of our consciences came as a result of evolution?
     

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